300 Koen van Seijen's journey into regenerative food and agriculture and introducing the Generation-Re investment syndicate

Koen van Seijen settles into the guest chair for a special 300th episode celebration and is interviewed by Naeem Lakhani and Antony Yousefian. It's fascinating how a simple curiosity about food led down the rabbit hole into the rich ecosystem of soil, carbon and regenerative agriculture. Starting from a coffee with Tony Lovell of SLM Partners, we recall moments and conversations that pivoted our path from a general interest in food to a passionate advocate for regenerative agricultural practices and the untapped investment opportunities beneath our feet. With Koen as guest of episode, we look back at the raw beginnings, the evolving mission that connects agriculture to our food systems, and the powerful narrative that's been shaped through the voices of the guests over these years.

We explore the symbiotic relationships that have sprouted from this platform, lending insights into the challenges and triumphs of impact investors and entrepreneurs alike. We share how the podcast has served and serves as a bridge, connecting people and ideas and how embracing the role of an investor has deepened our commitment while putting "skin in the game".

Finally, we highlight how the journey has led recently to the launch of the investment syndicate Generation-Re (https://www.gen-re.land) and the thrill of shared investment. Of course, turning tables and mics, you will find as well Koen's answer to the 1 billion dollar question.

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More about this episode on https://investinginregenerativeagriculture.com/naeem-lakhani-antony-yousefian.

Find our video course on https://investinginregenerativeagriculture.com/course.

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The above references an opinion and is for information and educational purposes only. It is not intended to be investment advice. Seek a duly licensed professional for investment advice.

https://foodhub.nl/en/opleidingen/your-path-forward-in-regenerative-food-and-agriculture/

Use KOEN10 for 10% off
https://rfsi-forum.com/2024-rfsi-forum/

Find out more about our Generation-Re investment syndicate:
https://gen-re.land/

https://www.freshventures.eu/

https://investinginregenerativeagriculture.com/2023/02/21/bart-van-der-zande-2/
https://investinginregenerativeagriculture.com/2024/03/22/chris-bloomfield-daniel-reisman/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:19

Welcome to another episode of the Investing in Regenerative Agriculture and Food podcast. With the co-founder of the Investing in Regenerative Agriculture and Food podcast, I am Naeem Lakhani, co-hosting today with Anthony Yousefian. For this special episode, number 300, we are turning the tables. Welcome Kun.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Thank you so much. It's really, it's really funny to be on the other side. So I'm looking forward to this, to this episode, and discussing what we've seen, what we've learned, looking forward and unpacking where we're going so happy to have you both here and let's go.

Speaker 1: 0:53

Awesome. Thanks for the opportunity and I know we're looking forward to it and hopefully the audience gets a kick out of some of these questions. But it'd be really interesting to hear just about how you got here. We often hear you ask about how you got here. We often hear you ask guests how they got here, but the listeners don't always get that opportunity and maybe they've heard you on another podcast but not on your own. So, Kun, tell us about your journey to soil.

Speaker 2: 1:16

Yeah, thank you. I mean it's a funny question indeed that we always ask everyone, like, how do you spend so much of your awake time talking and thinking about soil? And usually nobody asks me that, at least not in this podcast. So mine, I mean I was born in the city center of Rotterdam, no connection to soil whatsoever, didn't grow up on a farm, didn't grow up in a forest always was interested in food. So maybe that was the beginning of a connection, but never really connecting it, first of all to soil and second of all, let's say, to the, the problem or the potential of of food and agriculture.

Speaker 2: 1:53

I for a long time thought, if we just eat a bit better and source a bit better, we'll be fine. If everybody would do that, um, then maybe food was less of a damaging piece. That was until I read an article or actually a chapter in a book on solutions for climate change. I was very interested this is about 13 years ago to obviously climate change, and I read about grazing, grazing, amp grazing as we would call it now, regenerative grazing, holistically managed grazing, whatever term you want to use, but let's say different grazing and in Australia by Tony Lovell and Bruce Wade. They are both unfortunately no longer with us, but we're at the basis, actually, of SLM Partners, which we featured many times on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 2:33

I read that article, I read the chapter and was blown away by soil carbon. Those two words I never saw in the same sentence. I was like what's happening here? I saw some of the calculations, some of the cost pieces, because they were describing how these farmers that they were working with as consultants at the time were way more profitable and I did some calculations on the carbon potential. I was wondering why I never heard anybody talk about solar carbon at the time, and especially in the finance world or the entrepreneurial world. We were not focused at that at all. So that's where the rabbit hole opened, let's say.

Speaker 1: 3:10

and I started to fall in and you were just reading this out of interest. It wasn't part of your day job. What were you doing otherwise and why were you starting to read about these things?

Speaker 2: 3:25

Yeah, I was very interested in climate change and I was working as a consultant in the energy space and in general just trying to keep up with reading. So I was actually reading significantly at the time and stumbled upon this and reached out to Tony Lovell who was featured in that chapter. He happened to pass by Amsterdam on a fundraising trip because the last sentence of the chapter was something about um, we're starting a fund because tony is an accountant or was an accountant and and you were starting an investment fund to do this. I was like that's interesting. So there was soil carbon and investment fund in the same, let's say, chapter. I never saw that together like okay.

Speaker 2: 3:58

And he passed through amsterdam on a sunday morning, through skipple, basically the airport, um, and was on his way to Denmark to some pension funds to raise significant money, which they did. And I was just curious to meet him to hang out with people, which is going to be a theme in this podcast, and I just said let's have a coffee, because I don't understand why you in your deck because he shared a deck you don't mention soil carbon at all as a potential. And he said the famous words because I want to be taken seriously by the financial world and I was like okay, so we have a bit of work to do. Let's say why doesn't the financial work take? This world takes this seriously to begin with. And that was the beginning of the journey.

Speaker 2: 4:39

So we met for a coffee and on a Sunday morning where nothing is open close to Amsterdam Central, except for one place which is still there, um, and so he showed how to move the animals, how to, how easy is that or not? What do you need in terms of infrastructure? And I was hooked basically on yeah, management makes such a big difference. You don't need a whole lot of new technology. Of course, some stuff helps and we'll get there, um, but it's really a big mindset shift and educational shift on Land Stewards. And from that moment on I was hooked on people like Tony.

Speaker 1: 5:10

Yeah, that's cool, it's interesting and will probably come up later. But the way this community is and works at that time, you're not a personality in the space and taking a meeting at an airport, an airport to to explain more about, about the scene, and I think that's a commonality, that that we'll see, um and, and you've probably seen amongst your guests or maybe why don't you touch on that for a moment before we go back to, kind of the origin story? So many people you've met, have you found that everybody is this friendly and open and engaging to uh, having conversations?

Speaker 2: 5:42

Yeah, it's been probably the biggest joy of this journey. Most of the people are on a mission, first of all, with a purpose. They don't have to do this. In many cases they could do easier things. It's usually sort of also the framing of our first question, like why on earth are you doing this? Of all the other career paths? It could be easier, I think recently I reframed it a bit, but it's that I'm curious.

Speaker 2: 6:06

This is not an easy problem to work on.

Speaker 2: 6:08

This is a marathon which is going to take decades, probably beyond our lifetime, and yet I see so many people pouring their energy and their successful entrepreneurs that really could be doing other things with their time and their money, and investors as well, and they go all in and and are super open to share, of course, within limits of their agenda etc. But actually, next to the podcast, probably our biggest job is to connect people and we always ask on both sides. So if you ask for an intro, I will also ask it to the other person, but nine out of ten times, if somebody has time, they will make time to to connect, and that's what got me into this space and I it wasn't only tony doing that like many other people are. As john kemp uh, friend of the show likes to say, regeneration is about connection, reconnection of, of reconnecting between us, between us and animals, plants, soil and and all of that and and it somehow seems that many people of course not saying everyone, but they're quite open and nice people, people looking to connect to other people that want to do stuff in this space.

Speaker 1: 7:09

Yeah, completely agree. I think it's kind of an inspiration flywheel from one person to the next, because you just get another intro and another intro and everybody's super open and knowledgeable or seeking knowledge.

Speaker 2: 7:24

Maybe that changes as well, because we're still very early and maybe this is in all early spaces. I don't know. I hope not, because it's. It's been um yeah, with some small exceptions like an absolute joy to to connect with most people.

Speaker 1: 7:38

Yeah, fantastic. So I mean you say you're instantly hooked. So it wasn't. It wasn't an itch, that kind of grew. You just knew I need to do something here now. So what happens next? You know where do you go from the airport. Do you just get on a plane and start visiting Regen Farms, or you know what's the next step?

Speaker 2: 7:54

No, I mean that would have been another option, but I started asking the question what could I do in this space? At the time I started working at Aquaspark, a fund focused on sustainable aquaculture, and started slowly also working with Tonic so a group of impact investors. All in those years, let's say. So it wasn't that I immediately got on a farm tour or went woofing around the world or anything like that, but I definitely started asking a lot of questions to people with resources and entrepreneurs, like why are you not focusing on soil? And I never really got like satisfactory answers.

Speaker 2: 8:34

Maybe people weren't too aware of the potential and the issues, or the other way around, and so I didn't really know what to do in this space. I knew I didn't want to set up a fund. I've seen that in AquaSpark deep respect for Mike and Amy, what they've pulled off but it's not my role nor my idea. I didn't want to start a farm. I think it was pretty clear and I'm still pretty clear about that. No wish whatsoever to start farming, even though I love being on farms with friends, we love to be there with the family, we love the food, we love the people.

Speaker 2: 9:02

I think farmers, especially on the region edge are the most interesting people around. But I also see that's not our role, it's not my role. Don't let me in control of a farm. So I was wondering I don't have the wealth to be a big investor. What can I do? I don't, maybe don't have the entrepreneurial drive to set up a food company, or so I was in those years working in different roles and different jobs and really trying to figure out what. What is um? What is my role in this space? Where can I add most value?

Speaker 1: 9:31

and that's basically how the podcast was born yeah, so you know, before the podcast and getting there, so you, you worked, you're at aquaspark and you then did tonic. So I mean, how would you define, I guess in your own words what what? Yeah, yeah, sorry, um, you know in your own words what that role then was? You know what is coon's role? Is what you mean now, or yeah, even then, and then maybe how it's evolved, uh, if it has evolved yeah, I think then back then it was um, annoying people about soil.

Speaker 2: 10:02

So, like sharing the few articles that were out there, the few documentaries, maybe some companies, some people started to uh look into that and and starting like grazing could be different. And people look at you like what are you talking about? And nutrient density I don't think we used the term yet, or I used it yet I didn't know about it, but at least quality is is partly influenced by soil health, and you just get this sort of glazed look on people like they're not really connecting to it or they're like, oh yeah, but also education is important, or electric mobility, and so I was wondering, maybe I'm not the best storyteller in that sense or the best convener of this story, so maybe I should hang out with the people that are and that are building things that are potentially at some point investable, and what's the role of money here? And and that was sort of the, the genesis of the of the podcast, and I wanted to hang out with those people because I I figured, if I hang out with the tonys of this world, if I hang out with with others, maybe I figure out what my role is.

Speaker 2: 11:00

And the the the start of the podcast was simply putting a microphone there, because people, when, when you say, can I hang out with you, can I brainstorm about what my role in this space would be, they're going to answer I'm pretty busy, sorry, but if you say, can we record your story, can I ask you all kinds of silly questions about the role of money? Um, because I'm curious about it. I don't know how grazing works I'm born in the city center of rotterdam but I know you, so maybe I can pull out that story and then have something that I can share later on with people, with investors et cetera. And that's sort of how the question started, or the asker of questions started, and that turned out to be a podcast.

Speaker 2: 11:34

Why a podcast? Because it's the simplest thing to do. You need a laptop and a microphone and an internet connection and it wasn't even a thought to do video et cetera, because it's just way too complex. It was literally to hang out with people and spend an hour plus with people that are building things in the space, and they say, yes, when you say can I interview you?

Speaker 1: 11:54

Yeah, nice, and. And so yeah, I mean, in the early, in the early episodes you did talk about, you know, I was talking to these cool people and I always thought, you know, I should record this, and so there must have been a moment where you said, okay, the next one is the one I'm going to record. Did you then choose your first guest, or was it just the next conversation you were going to have?

Speaker 2: 12:16

I mean it was a bit of luck. And so I reached out to a few friends and whoever said yes first basically, was first it was actually supposed to be Tony Lovell, but we had huge internet issues, as we sometimes have in general, but he was somewhere in the bush in Australia buying a farm and we just couldn't record and it was through Skype still and it was a very different time. So it became Julian and then Paul McMahon of SLM and then Tony, I think, but that was simply because of timing issues or timing and internet issues. But it was that first bunch were all people close to us that just happened to say yes, and then we found the time to schedule, so there was no grand plan. And then Sally Calhoun was the first one that I didn't know personally and I got an interest from my colleague at Tonic and that was.

Speaker 3: 13:05

I was super nervous for that, obviously so did you record several episodes before the first um episode, before kind of launching the first episode, and were you really nervous about putting yourself out there?

Speaker 2: 13:20

yeah, it's a funny story. Um, so people are listening in a laugh now. Um, so some some fans of the podcast I won't mention them now fans of the podcast, probably the biggest, and they knew I was recording. So they're tonic members as well. And this was.

Speaker 2: 13:32

We started recording in september, october I think, and around christmas I didn't put out anything yet because I wasn't really sure I was, of course, like what? Like recording is one thing, putting it out is a second and I was editing myself. So that takes forever and it's not really the thing to do. It's good to do because I did the first 40 myself, because you hear your voices, you hear your questions and it's very painful. And then, just before Christmas, they were going on holiday and they said this was still before you had Wi-Fi everywhere and cell reach everywhere. And they said this was still before you had Wi-Fi everywhere and cell reach everywhere. And they said we want to download them so we can record, we can listen to them.

Speaker 2: 14:07

So the 19th of December if I get the date right for sure I get corrected we uploaded them and that was when, I think, four or five episodes, that was when the podcast was, or three even. That was when it was born and that's also when we decided the order, basically because it's when you upload the order, basically because it's when you upload completely random name in, but we had to come up with a name which we didn't have um, completely random platform. Soundcloud. That is meant for music, not for podcasts, and we found out later that it's better to move, to move. But it was really a bit of pressure from some people that knew we were recording that. Of course, I'm wondering why did I tell them um to to put it out there? And? And it was nerve wracking, like, of course, you put like something that you sort of recorded on the side just for for fun and for, and then you put it out there and then suddenly it's a thing.

Speaker 1: 14:52

You've found you've gotten quite lucky with the name that you happened to choose, cause I heard from, from one of your old AMAs. Why, why is that?

Speaker 2: 14:59

And I mean I assume you you wouldn't change it if even you could. No, I mean in podcasting there, um, I mean now it's changing slightly with youtube, but there are no real search engines, or there were no, so there's no soe. Search engine optimization tags work slightly, but you need to be found in in either spotify or apple podcast for the most. I mean some people use overcast, but for us it's mostly those two, and so the name needs to say what it does. Otherwise you just never get found. So if you type in Regend of Agriculture, you get us and you get John Kempf. Of course now it's much more. He has the Regend of Agriculture podcast. Of course it makes sense in terms of farming side, but it was pure luck and for sure I thought at that moment it's way too long as a name, but it really works well, because a name has to say what it does.

Speaker 3: 15:49

Otherwise, you get lost and the names changed slightly. Right, it used to be just investing in regenerative agriculture?

Speaker 2: 15:56

Yeah, we did. I mean, at the beginning we were not only but predominantly talking, I think, land and land investments, and of course at some point the food part comes in. So I deliberately we didn't change the name officially. In a sense, I don't think you can even do that without messing up RSS feeds and things like that, or at least the RSS name, technology behind it, stays the same. But we definitely added food, and I also make a case of trying to say food before agriculture, simply to emphasize the importance of it and and to just really drill to people that are going oh, it's all about soil now it's also about growing good and enough food. And let's not forget what, what we're doing here. Um, so yeah, it's a I don't remember when we did it, but it's a deliberate addition of the four-letter word nothing's brilliant.

Speaker 3: 16:42

I mean, I'm always today trying to correct myself and I'm trying to correct others as well, referring to it's a food system and it's a system of different stakeholders. So, yeah, I think it's it's an important change and I'm really glad that you do that and I like that. You've put food before as well and that's brilliant. So I mean, just going back to the putting yourself out there, do you recall, like looking at the metrics, like religiously? Do you read there? Just like looking at the downloads of the views?

Speaker 2: 17:14

I would be not that I remember. I mean now we monitor things and and it's way more crowded as well now as well. Actually, interestingly, after the beginning I don't remember for sure I checked and and for sure, but it was also a thing on the side. I was I am still um working at tonic, and that time I was working way more at tonic, so this was also like we didn't really have a release schedule. It wasn't that we were recording every week and things like that. So I I don't remember hitting the, the refresh button religiously for sure.

Speaker 2: 17:46

I did the first months and weeks and you get like the, the 10 listeners and 20 listeners and things like that, which is amazing because you still you're recording too and you have even 50 people listening to. It is crazy, um, but I think it took a while before we started structuring things and and like releasing on a schedule and and saying, okay, what are? Um, and even still it's we have discussions about it, me and my partner like what, what is success look like? Is it 10 000 people listening, 3 000? Or if you change the lives of a few, I mean, just had somebody on the podcast this morning that listened to a radio slot about trees and two minutes of that changed his life and went. He was 15 and he went into trees and became a super successful forester, set up organizations, etc. That two minutes, or that radio piece, changed his life forever.

Speaker 2: 18:38

Like, if you can do that, then only one person has to listen. So it's also, what are the metrics to look for? Do that? Even then only one person has to listen. So it's, it's also what are the metrics to look for? I don't remember doing refresh religiously, but for sure we wanted people to listen to it because otherwise why would you? Why would you do it, even though the goal was a bit just to hang out with interesting people for a while? I never imagined that this would become a small media company. We could live, uh, mostly off this. Of course it wasn't part of any.

Speaker 1: 19:01

There was no business plan after the first batch of the few episodes, did you know you were going to do another batch? Um, or was it after some feedback that people were like this is amazing or I'm interested. Can you please do more? You know what? What made you do the second batch? And then, when did that? I'm going from hanging out to people to maybe there's something here happened in your head that that's a super good question.

Speaker 2: 19:26

I don't think I ever thought it in batches, as I just kept going and just, ah, I want to interview that person and I want to interview that person. It was just following curiosity. That happened to be maybe in batches because we were in a place where it was easy to record. But I don't think I ever thought, okay, let's do 10 and then let's see Somehow, let's evaluate and let's see if this can. Now there were, if you look at our recording schedule now our production plan, it's a list of 60 to 100, probably more, of interviews I want to do soonish that are sort of like let's get them done as soon as possible, and then they're all the other people we need to reach, check in with again, and so the stories are endless, or it feels like there's the curiosity of digging deeper and deeper and check in with this person, et cetera. And then we already had at the beginning like the amount of people I wanted to interview was way more than the time we had, or the time I had to edit, et cetera. So there was never I don't think it was even ever a question. Let's do five and then let's stop or reevaluate and see where it goes.

Speaker 2: 20:28

Then it was a very conscious decision to put up a website, which my partner did, to start releasing regularly. Let's do every month, okay, let's start with that, let's do every, instead of just releasing before Christmas because somebody asked you. So it was a very conscious decision to let's hire an editor, let's outsource that, let's start to professionalize piece by piece. But it was never a question. I've never. I mean, every time I hit record I still think what am I doing? Or every time, like the half an hour before, I'm thinking this is not because I'm getting nervous, and but it's never a question like, okay, this is the last one, or this was only a few, because I noticed I also really, really enjoyed the process of asking questions and play that tennis match at the fastest speed possible. Okay, which rabbit hole do we go in after, and which hooks are there, et cetera. I didn't know, but I really enjoyed that process 300 episodes.

Speaker 1: 21:27

I mean it's a crazy milestone for creating content at this level and with this many interesting guests. I was looking back at the release schedule which you were just talking about, and your first 100 episodes took you four years, the next 100 was three years and the last hundred one year and five months. So that frequency is really changing. So there's some life shifts in there as well. You know, in between, like you used to mention at the beginning of the episode. You know I do this on the side. You know it's not like that anymore, right? I mean, this is where the majority of your time goes. Tell us about that shift and how this became. You know the main gig from the thing you did on the side.

Speaker 2: 22:13

Yeah, absolutely. I think the moment we decided to release and my partner came on board and started to say, okay, let's do a logo and let's do a website and let's do this on instagram, twitter, linkedin all of that we didn't have. Basically, it was me slowly building up a subscriber base because you have to be subscribed to get notifications and we have a high amount of people that listen to or that get at least the notifications and things like that automatically and slowly building up a newsletter. And so the moment we decided, okay, let's do it regularly, and we thought, okay, what's the what? What can we easily achieve? So we said, okay, once a month, that sounded nice. And then, um, that triggered actually an interesting process to figure out. Okay, what are we going to cover in 12 episodes, like, what's the most important thing to to do if we only have 12? Because, again, we had 100 to do and only 12 to fill. So we set up a framework and that still guides us to a certain extent. I just updated it. Okay, what are the crucial pieces? What are the investment themes that we really want to cover? What are the potentially highest impact and most neglected pieces of the industry? Nutrient quality and density, not surprisingly, landscape scale regeneration or global global cooling, uh, transition finance, which triggered us to do a transition finance series and things like that.

Speaker 2: 23:29

So there was really a moment okay, this becomes a thing. We never asked for money until that. We got some donations here and there, but it wasn't a financial thing to be sure. Um, but from that moment on, we said, okay, 12 episodes, we need some editing. Um, so we might need to also ask for money, because then we can pay the editor and the website and things like that. So we set up a patreon account and, uh, basically started from there asking the money question like, look, if this is important to you, we keep doing everything for free or keep it's accessible, but if you have the means and we we made a difference and we created value to you, please find a way to support us somehow. And people responded and that's been, I think, an enormous shift in the company or in the project.

Speaker 2: 24:14

At that point there was no company, of course, and so that really was a shift. And then we just kept okay, twice a month. And then what do we do every week? Like, is that possibly physically, do we have enough stories to tell and can we do it time-wise and that just kept growing with with income growing as well. And okay, now we do 75 episodes a year, or 70 to 75, which means every other week, or every other week. We double means uh, we, we do three episodes every two weeks and, yeah, that rhythm feels sustainable at the moment. I don't know if we reached the limit or we are cannibalizing, if we put out too much. The stories are there, there's no shortage, so that's that makes it. Um, yeah, we don't know if we've hit the limit yet or we should do other things yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 1: 24:56

I mean you mentioned other things. You've had great experiences, great conversations with different guests on the podcast, but it's also opened the door for you to other opportunities and other exploration about investing and the region space. What kind of opportunities have you been exposed to and what are some of the ones that stick out that came as a result of having this podcast?

Speaker 2: 25:19

I mean, first of all, some amazing visits, hanging out with amazing people, because now we have an audience, and not even because of the audience, I think, because we have the luxury to talk to many of the people I find most interesting and relevant in this space, on our virtual couch, and they know other people like it's all a small bubble still, as you know as well, and so we get invited to places, places, we get to hang out with interesting people and and interview them. Not always. We also make try to make as many introductions as possible um, behind the scenes, let's say, or behind the podcast, even if we don't feature someone because maybe they're not ready to to to shout through the microphone. Um, because in some cases that's not relevant, but we try to make introduction for fundraising. We, of course, know quite a few people with resources that want to put money to work and we try to be as conscious as possible about connecting them or asking for like would you like to be connected to the company behind this deck. We always ask on both sides and and try to to do that, and I don't know if you were, if that was the bridge to that question, but we I also started asking the question probably three and a half years ago or so, um, when I knew companies were fundraising and I was interested in the company as what's the smallest ticket?

Speaker 2: 26:35

Because I don't have a hundred k here and there to just fly, fly around, let's say an investment. But if it's 2k, 2000 or 5000, maybe I would do it. And some of the companies said, yes, sure, come, come on board. And uh, and so we, we got the chance. It opened the door to invest in a, in a few companies that we featured. Uh, not because we invested, but I asked it after the interview. Uh, simply because I want to be part of it, have some skin in the game, I want to invest hence the word investing in this, uh, in this. Uh, in the title of the podcast as well and have something more to say than just this oh, this is amazing what they're doing, but yeah, no, I won't put any money in it Because that's that's not my role. No, actually, if I have the chance, then we should also. We should also do it.

Speaker 1: 27:18

I'm sure we're going to get more into that later. I did want to move a little bit from the history of the podcast to maybe some of the experiences. You've talked to so many people. Early days things were a little bit different in terms of how you interviewed and you've obviously honed the craft. But what are any early anecdotes from early episodes? And then, yeah, which ones are the most memorable? I guess along the way, it's interesting.

Speaker 2: 27:47

I mean I've wondered if I should go back and I would say, listen to them all. And I always feel for people that reach out and say I'm on like a listening spree and I started that episode one, I'm like, wow, first of all, that's a lot, and second, I don't know if they're all the level not not because the guests but because of me that are super relevant, like I can maybe make a selection. But it's also true that I don't remember, of course, these more than it's 300 plus hours of content of very smart people sharing what they're doing and why, and the challenges and things like that. So I usually what I remember are anecdotes from interviews and ones that I just extremely enjoyed because of the flow of the conversation, because of the, the sort of tennis match that that happened, and so, um, they stay with me and and sometimes I remember technical issues as well, because I I'm always scared for connections that fail and and microphones that don't work, um, or if we do it in person. I definitely remember I was in the offices of Patagonia interviewing Tinch Adventures I'm blanking on the name but I had a small microphone with me and of course I was terrified it wasn't recording. It was recording and then nothing happened or was not pointed right.

Speaker 2: 28:58

So those are more the behind the scenes or background noise. Somebody started drilling next door or a helicopter passing over because we don't have a fancy studio and also, if we have one and the other person doesn't like, it doesn't really help. I remember I think John Kemp did our first conversation outside, of course, with that video, but you heard a lot of birds, which he apologized for, but for us it was amazing because you have a lot of birds in the and I for, but for us it was amazing because you have a lot of birds in in the and I think tony love the first one was with a lot of dogs in the background or something like that, because he was on a farm and so, yeah, that's, that's the. The case. If you don't fly people into your fancy studio somewhere, you're gonna have some background noise and sometimes it's just not amazing quality, but I think it's always been good enough and, um, yeah, we, we try really hard, and also our editor, to of course, make it sound as good as possible as we can, with not flying somewhere and recording it on the spot with a whole setup etc. Or having somebody fly to us.

Speaker 2: 29:54

But lately I mean it's a very long answer but not very structured answer. Lately I've really enjoyed also the in-person ones we've been doing, walking the land on the farm itself, like walking with a farmer. Of course you have background noise, but that's meant to be Filming. A few have been fascinating as well. So we've been experimenting. And of course New Voice. We had Emma Chow doing a whole series on the regen mindset, but it's been all relatively recent, like the last year and a half I think we've been doing things like that half.

Speaker 3: 30:24

I think we've been doing things, things like that. So how have you, how have you seen regenerative food systems or regenerative agriculture change over the last several years and would you say you're getting more optimistic or less optimistic?

Speaker 2: 30:39

um, I would say more, not because of the state we're in, because it's definitely it's a fast downhill at the moment, but from what I've seen change it's first of all, it wasn't a topic like soil, except in soil science and of course there were agroecology. There's been like, don't say, region ag is a new thing, but it wasn't a topic, at least in the entrepreneurs I knew, or the investors I knew. I remember at tonic, like you mentioned regeneration or soil and and people were like, yeah, sure, why is that important? And and now it's fundamentally shifted. So I think in some scenes at least the attention is there. Of course there's a hype and and that's good or bad, we can discuss about it um, but I think the attention is very different, which means we get entrepreneurs building things and I think that's the big shift.

Speaker 2: 31:27

I see very at the beginning we're there, but very talented people that have experience elsewhere of getting uh excuse my french shit done, um, like building things, like raising money, building teams, like managing those things, which are the same everywhere, like if you've done that very successfully in NGO or in a movement or in a company and you applied it to soil, then I get very excited.

Speaker 2: 31:48

Then I want to interview, follow and hopefully introduce you to people, because we need those people. We need way more people to worry about soil and people that are building things and lobbying as well, of course, but I think it starts with the cutting edge of farmers and entrepreneurs, and so I'm excited about that because I see an influx of people, of talented people, that, if they want to, please use the podcast to get up to speed or to get the frameworks you need, et cetera, and then hopefully come back when we can interview you. So I'm optimistic about that. Is it fast enough? Is it enough? Absolutely not, because, yeah, you. So I'm optimistic about that. Is it fast enough? Is it enough? Absolutely not, because, yeah, you just have to look around into any weather overview.

Speaker 3: 32:30

Harvest yield conflict water, drought, fire to see that we're in quite a mess. Yeah, and I mean I certainly get a lot of inbound into myself. People are saying like, oh, how do I get into this space? I think the people point is a really valid point. I think I've definitely been seeing it as well as the last several years talented people coming into this space and I always direct them towards your podcast. By the way, I don't always maybe say start at the beginning, episode one, I say it in your way.

Speaker 3: 33:28

But so, given your exposure across that, what you've seen along the value chain of regen, um, where's the biggest gaps at the moment that you kind of that is a gaping opportunity to talk about or, uh, put more effort into. Where's the biggest gaps, do you feel?

Speaker 2: 33:49

I'm hesitant, I leave a gap there, I pause because it's such a tricky question and I change my mind every time as well. I think we need a stack of things. We need way better education, or more education for farmers. Like, you cannot expect people to learn this I mean you can get excited, but not to learn this through YouTube, which is by default, almost the way to go for many. If you're in the middle of nowhere and you're surrounded by people that are not interested in this, of course you're surrounded by people that are moving, like if you have a neighbor that that is putting virtual fencing, like the chance of you doing that is just way bigger. If you have a neighbor in a wild farm program, or you have a neighbor like root so deep, that is doing like regenerative grazing, the documentary route, so deep um, it's not guaranteed, but at least the chances are you you're going to be exposed to it and that's just not happening enough. And like structured education, most of farming education is super high input, chemical, industrialized machinery not to say that all of those are irrelevant, but it's. It's really not biology, let's say. And so photosynthesis. So we miss a basic training of a whole cohort of new farmers. So I would say that I'm not saying that's investable, but it's definitely a gap. And then all the technology stack for farmers from figuring out what to plant where and why we did a whole series on that and didn't really get super investable or even companies starting to answer that question Okay, in this landscape, where does it make sense to do what and why?

Speaker 2: 35:17

I think there's a lot to do there. The input side we're going to make a whole series on that. Actually, on inputs, we're going to like everything from compost teas to extract to biochar. All is important and all is difficult to do, but all needs to be done. And monitoring, and so there's a whole piece there that I would love to dive deeper into.

Speaker 2: 35:37

And then the offtake side like someone needs to take this off farm unless you sell everything on the farmer's market but that's a very small minority and process it Of course, not ultra, but get it to us on our kitchen tables and things like that and needs to be paid well enough for farmers to make changes, and so I think there's a whole stack there. And then there's a monitoring for verification and all of that. But there's a whole and we need lighter tractors and new machinery, so that answer is difficult. I think we need a stacked approach, and that's why I'm most excited to invest in many of these, because they're so different and I don't think there's a golden solution that's going to change everything. Like biochar is going to change the world, probably with 30 other things that we don't know about yet.

Speaker 1: 36:26

Yeah, just building off that piece, a lot of what you mentioned is bottom-up towards the consumer. But up to the consumer. Where does the consumer come into this conversation? How do they get involved and educated? Do you think the consumer will ever move based on conscious choices, which we don't see, that they generally do? It's price and convenience. So what is going to make them either pay a premium or make a different choice to buy Regen so that the offtaker has someone to sell to?

Speaker 2: 36:57

Yeah, I think. No, let me say I hope and pray it's going to be health. I don't know. I don't think we do know. I don't know if we people like we people pay crazy amounts for superfoods and things we consider healthy, and I mean the evidence is mounting like we people pay crazy amounts for superfoods and things we consider health, healthy, and I mean the evidence is mounting that there is a connection between soil, health and healthy produce. But I've yet to see, except for a few exceptions.

Speaker 2: 37:22

We know like a whole, like a cohort of companies that are capitalizing on that or building things for food as medicine, healthy soil, healthy produce, healthy gut systems and healthy people. That that's why we made two, two whole series on it and and we struggle to find companies to interview. We had a few and and but like beyond, the science is there very clearly. Now the question is who's going to build on that? So I think if we have the same conversation I don't know episode 500 or in a couple of years, then hopefully there are many companies on that and hopefully they have the response. I mean we see some of that now with wild farmed people saying I'm always struggling with gluten or I thought so, but actually it might be the glyphosate and actually the wild farm bread that just was released in the UK. Actually, I don't get that reaction. So maybe, but is it worth that premium? And are enough people crazy enough about their health to buy food differently and spend a bit more time conveniently, maybe a bit more money? That I really, really don't know. But considering we do spend a crazy amount on health but not on food, that might be true.

Speaker 2: 38:29

I see many people excited about it. I don't know, I haven't seen um enough. I really hope so. I definitely do, like us in our family definitely do. But of course, I can't like pretend that that's uh, that's the, the normal situation, and and so I I hope that it's the key to unlock a lot of consumer demand or enough to to keep this to, to kick this engine into movement, because you don't need everybody, you need 10, 15% to start really demanding change, and then you need the companies to supply it. So I think there's a huge role and I hope this ultra processed food moment with a lot of the health side of things, with the weight loss drugs, with companies like maybe this is a moment we'll look back in time, this is the moment that healthy food finally made a breakthrough, because we know, we've known this for a long time, but I don't know interesting and I mean you mentioned healthy food and you know, obviously correlated to that is tasty food.

Speaker 1: 39:27

Um, and you know these, these wild farmed and and other regen brands actually just taste better and there's an obvious relationship there between the health components and the on-farm practice. And it's interesting an anecdote to share from somebody that we both know who said to sell regen, we shouldn't be scaring people into. You know, if we don't do this, the world is going to end and climate is a huge problem and it's gonna be terrible for your kids. But we should be encouraging people about the benefits and I think the example he used was BMW doesn't sell a car to you by telling you how crap it is to walk for 200 miles. What they tell you is how great the experience is and how it's going to feel to use this product. And we need more of that in regen. And it seems like, you know, maybe that's a way to get to the consumer a bit more is to tell them about the benefits. So, like you mentioned, health and taste, and maybe that's more of an activation point than the doom and gloom that is sometimes commonly used in our space.

Speaker 2: 40:31

And we've been a bit allergic, maybe to that as well. Like, like in the space, like the selling too much of it is always like, oh, can we do that and can we claim that? And the marketing is not sexy. I mean it is sexy when it's done. Well, um, but too many in the space. Maybe then it feels like an oversell or something.

Speaker 2: 40:46

But we need to hit um, like, hit people and like and touch nerves, which means you need to market and you need to get very smart marketing people and communication people on board that know how to, how to reach people and how to touch people. And that's maybe not the same as the people growing this food, because we cannot expect farmers to be amazing marketeers and and maybe it's not the same people making the food. But we need really good storytellers and that might be a bit itchy sometimes if you see some of the memes of Wild Farm, but it's reaching a lot of people and it's very effective and that's what we need. Like it's no, I don't think it's a shame to shout it from the rooftop Like this is better for you, better for everyone, better flavor and okay if you have a problem with that, show me, show me the opposite, or show me how good your food is, and probably it's not.

Speaker 1: 41:40

Um, so it's that shouting. I think we're not used to it, but we need to to embrace it. Yeah, totally. Um, you know, you mentioned earlier that there's a, not a wait list, but a list of people that that you're waiting to talk to in so many conversations. You know, is there are there any? You know, um, some number of guests that you just you're, you're really waiting to feature and you're like I gotta get this person on and I need people to hear their story. And are they on the list? Um, or is is it? Uh, are there people not on the list that you would love to get in touch with and and be able to get on the show?

Speaker 2: 42:09

I mean we were discussing a bit pre-episode. Uh, I would love to get king's child king charles on the show. I mean we were discussing a bit pre episode. I would love to get King's child King Charles on the show. For anybody I didn't see farmer the farmer and his Prince. It's an old documentary. You can find it on Vimeo streaming and, and I think his view, I'm just very curious. I'm also very I think he can't for many different reasons, but I'm very curious on the land use, on his vision of food and all of that. So there would be I would love to have him on and apart from that, I think, a few more chefs. I think there's something there.

Speaker 2: 42:41

I haven't really figured out the angle yet, but somehow that keeps coming up. I mean, innovative farmers are always interesting, but I'm not saying there's no shortage and I'll probably leave it at that. I'm very, I think, um, for some artists, like people I start to see more people interested in like, how do we get this to this message of the potential of soil and healthy food etc. To wider audiences and and I think art could be very, is very effective in that. So we need way more people using very creative, very creative skills to communicate this outside of our little bubble that maybe listen to our podcast or or to john camp or something like that. But we need how do we break out of this bubble? And and we need other mediums, and art would be amazing. So I want to definitely explore the creative side more and see because I think it's such an inspirational piece, so poorly told until now what soil can do or what regeneration can do. It's such an interesting visual story that we haven't really really covered yet enough.

Speaker 1: 43:46

And I think when people do tell the story, people are really interested in consuming it. I remember I don't know if the account is still there, but on TikTok, chinese farmers who were just filming their day on their phone and it had tons of viewers and people were just interested in what was happening. And we see things like that with Clarkson's Farm, and so the media is growing. You mentioned art and I feel like we're in maybe it's just echo chamber, but there's, there's more content, there are more movies. You know, things are hitting Netflix, people are consuming them. But I guess my question would be and then what? So you know, we've talked to people after and they say, oh, this is fantastic and it's amazing, but nothing changes tomorrow, um, and is that just a time lag thing, or are you know? Are we missing a step? And what's the call to action after people get exposed to this media?

Speaker 2: 44:40

Then how do you get involved? Yeah, I think it depends a bit. I mean as a citizen or consumer I don't really like the word consumer but as a person that eats, which hopefully, if you listen to this, you can do that when you want. Of course there's a role there, but I don't think we have to cover that, I think, as an entrepreneur, there are tons of businesses to be built here. So let's get you educated in the sense that they get you exposed to all the things that need to be done, and then you will find enough to do, and I know many people that have made the switch from other sectors and are extremely happy.

Speaker 2: 45:08

And at the same time, it's an extremely complex food system, like Anthony likes to say. So this is a marathon, but we need way more people building things. And then, as an investor, there are tons of ways to put money to work, and you might have to dig a bit deeper, you might have to question a bit more, but there's definitely not an overload of cash. Let's say getting to work here in the space, and if you work in a big food company or anything related to food, there's a huge amount of work to be done there as well. Internally, we have to work with the big food companies. I don't think we can escape that, but there are massive changes to be done there. So I think the role depends on your background and your role currently, but there is a role for almost everyone and we're still with very few.

Speaker 1: 46:31

Yeah, fascinating. Just a couple more questions on the podcast. So you've come this far, you've learned a lot. I listened to a couple of the older AMAs my older 2020, and I was surprised at how many nuggets you were dropping. This guy's really absorbed a lot. He's not just asking questions. What maybe key insights have you generated over, I guess, the last 13 years, broadly and otherwise, over the last, say, eight years or so with the podcast?

Speaker 2: 47:07

That could be a whole different episode. No, not that we learned, but I think I don't know. It's biology, stupid, like it's really. The photosynthesis and the mechanisms are so basic and so interesting and we know so little, like what makes a tree grow faster and how does grass interact with ruminants, and all of those questions are not really answered. And how does a tree trigger rain, as we've done with a full series, and still we have like, how did that? And so I think there's a humbleness there needed.

Speaker 2: 47:41

I think I'm very allergic to people that are like this thing is going to change everything on every, every field, and every this and that and, and I think that's that's not the mindset nor approach, and I see the people that interacting daily with land are extremely curious and extremely aware of that. We know very little um and and we and so it's it's a very um. I mean those, the, the nuggets of a single solution to everything. I think is is clear, very. I mean. The amount of companies that we've seen that try to build something without having a farmer or land steward involved is staggering as well, and amount of money they raised in many cases like this is so we're so disconnected. Maybe that's that we're so disconnected from our food and I've known many people have said this before. I'm not gonna iterate on but the fact that we are and the fact that we are in in cities and offices deciding on resources and on funds and investments without really actually knowing, um, what what is happening on the ground is, and we're disconnected from our food that we eat and we're disconnected from from each other, that's it's. It's not scary, but it's huge opportunity as well. When I see people reconnecting to their food and reconnecting to like it opens up whole different realms. But if you look at how the financial sector is organized or how many of the food companies are organized, it's completely disconnected.

Speaker 2: 49:01

On how, um, if we can even say that nature wants to organize things or nature wants to and and like, we've really been scratching the surface of what's possible, biology wise, in terms of, um, um, growing things and growing biomass and food and fibers and oils on landscapes, and we've gotten used to very degraded degraded people, degraded landscapes, degraded companies as well. If we've got it, we got used to quite a low bar and and sometimes we get a hint, like we can look around the corner. We get a hint of what's possible and and but then we sort of believe that it's not possible, like that, too good to be true, like you cannot and grow and have biodiversity and eat, and, and we've seen examples that it is. But somehow the narrative of the, the, the anti-narrative of abundance, is too strong, and so I think that's.

Speaker 2: 49:51

But people are building it, people are doing this stuff. And is it all investable? No, is it all perfect? No. Is it 10 times better, 100 times better than the status quo? Yes, and so we better get behind it and see how far we can push it.

Speaker 1: 50:04

Yeah, totally agree. And the one maybe amendment I would make to what you just said is it is all investable, it's not all venture or it's not all high return and at the end of the day we have to invest in the planet and in that way it's mandatorily investable because it is for actually all of our return period.

Speaker 1: 50:30

There is no return if we don't have the planet at the end of it. But yeah, different vehicles, different formats, certainly, and investing your time to what you do and what many others do to try and get there and, hopefully, what you continue to do with the podcast. So I don't know if you have any ideas on what does the future of the podcast look like? Continue growing and improving it. You've done different formats. You've had the AMA in the past, the special series. You have the standard format, interview. Where does it go from here? What does episode 400, 500, 5,000 look like?

Speaker 2: 51:06

Quick answer. I don't know, but we're definitely exploring. I mean, we see the space is getting fuller, so it's not that we keep growing with the standard between bracket podcast like we did before, which is fine, whereas. What does success look like if the key people in the space are listening Great, which is fine. Whereas, like what? What does success look like if the the key people in the space are listening great? Uh, do we reach a mass or like audience with thousands or tens of thousands of listeners or million listeners? No, but it's pretty niche niche.

Speaker 2: 51:33

So what, what can we do beyond that? Can we do? Should we do things on tiktok, instagram, etc. Should we do shorter form, uh, more with with video etc. Um, I don't know if that's our role maybe not but we do think that the knowledge of how environmentally sound, profitable and healthy agriculture food should be more widely known. We have access to a lot of these people Doesn't mean that we have to be the conveyor of this message, but these messages, because it's all consortium, has to be promoted way more and I think can give way more people hope and hopefully get them into action.

Speaker 2: 52:08

So we're thinking what to do there and definitely we want to continue some of the series we've been doing, which is also, I mean, supported series are an important part of our business model. We can do this freely for everyone because we have monthly supporters Thank you, if you're one of them and because we have a number of foundations and family offices that support a specific series that they want to unpack further, and they don't have any editorial influence, but they do make it possible to make a lot of other episodes as well, and we have a video course that you can follow and pay for, and those three together keeps us alive and keeps us going, which is amazing, and keeps us from having to take sponsor deals and like, oh, now get your superfood from this and this company, or some kind of things like that. We don't have to do that. If we do it, it would be something I actually eat myself and feel really good about. Until now, that didn't happen yet. So we're in a unique position.

Speaker 2: 53:01

We're pretty independent and we don't I mean we don't have to but, it also gives a huge responsibility, like what's next, how do we reach way more people? We have about two and a half to 3000 listeners per episode, which is amazing, but how do we get that to five? Or how do we reach more people in a different way, which equally, is fine, and so how do we get more impact? How do we reach more people? How do we put more people into the space, get bitten by the bug and and that might be, getting more artists involved? It might be because what we have is is access to people.

Speaker 2: 53:33

We have a great podcast or something I really enjoy doing, um, but that's not. It's a means to an end. It's not like we have to keep doing that forever or we don't never have to change that. If, if we can reach more people differently, we might end up doing that and make more introductions, make more connections with people, because most of my email ends up being connecting people to each other, and that is something that creates value. One in a thousand changes a life, so that's amazing, or one in 10,000. But once that happens, it's a huge impact, and if we can keep doing that and putting a spotlight on people, we're not married to the format. This is not an announcement that we're stopping, but I really, really, really enjoy it. But at the same time, we have to question and say, okay, how do we reach more people and how do we touch more people and impact more people?

Speaker 1: 54:22

Yeah, and of which you mentioned so many. You know two and a half to three thousand people, but think of the billions of micro-lives you've influenced along the way as well.

Speaker 2: 54:32

And the billions of euros.

Speaker 1: 54:34

Yeah, billions and billions, but yeah, no, that's, you know, rewinding from the future outlook and coming back to the present moment.

Speaker 2: 54:43

So if you have any ideas, get in touch please.

Speaker 1: 54:44

Sorry, I was a question as well yeah, no, I yeah definitely do, um, but yeah, what I was saying is you know that's uh forward looking. You're coming back to the moment, um, you know there's a significant milestone another 100 episodes. You're at 300. How does how does that feel, um, you know, getting to the point like you're actually recording, if you ever, you ever stop and think, wow, I've hit 300. And how do you feel about that?

Speaker 2: 55:13

Not enough, probably. I don't do that enough. I mean, I was thinking about it today, of course, because I knew we were recording number 300. So then it becomes a thing when you call it out, but it sounds cheeky, but episode is is a different one, and just grow up, and if we have an amazing one, then I definitely celebrate or I think, wow, this is for me, this was one I super enjoyed, but because of this, isn't this but to stop, and I see it when I start scrolling through the list. I'm like, oh, we interviewed them, and again that why, and that one. And then you suddenly realize how, um, how many people take the time to come here, and and how enjoyable 99.9 of the conversations are, and and how interesting the people are building. So I don't do it enough, I don't, so I don't know how I would do it. Let's say how do you?

Speaker 2: 56:01

yeah probably not listening to it myself. But like, how to celebrate? We did an event last year which was which was great around 250, because we missed the 200, more or less and and so there was great celebration. Many people sent in videos, which was amazing, um and and so yeah, together with people that are in the space listening or not listening, but we've either helped some, some, somehow. I think that's that's the best way to celebrate, because we try to make connections and then hopefully, the rest does the work.

Speaker 2: 56:29

Let's be very clear Like, we're not farming, we don't do that work. We're not investing. I mean, we're investing sort of we'll get to that, but we're not running a big fund. We're not raising X, we're not inventing new technology, like other do the work and we try to put a spotlight on it and make that work go faster. So I'm I always um bow for the people that actually do this hard work, and I see farmers do the hard work and it's hard work in the region space, non-region space doesn't matter. This is um and and I'm not running a food company and trying to figure out sourcing and things like that.

Speaker 1: 56:59

So let's be very clear this is not the hard work we're doing yeah, um, well, from from our end, you know, congratulations on on the 300 and. But I totally get your point. 300 is an arbitrary. Every episode is a new personal best. Uh, you hit a new number and there's no reason we have to be so tied to the decimal system. If we were in another culture, 300 wouldn't mean anything to us, um, but it is a 300 and we are in a decimal-ish culture, so there is there is some celebration to be had. You know, is there there's something you plan to uh to celebrate this milestone with your audience, and do you have any, any special announcements for this, for this 300th episode?

Speaker 2: 57:38

yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 57:39

I mean, we touched upon the investing piece a few times and, um, like what it got us, um in terms of access, in terms of people, and so for a number of years we've been investing, like I said, two or five k, five thousand, um, and let's let's not use all the the specific investing language, but let's say two or five thousand euros or dollars, if we like the company and if we could get access to it.

Speaker 2: 58:06

And now, since two years, we've been investing, actually officially, with a syndicate called Generation Re, which Naeem pulled me into and convinced me that it would be a good idea to do, which I'm happy we did, but it's still significant work. But it's been extremely fun to start investing more seriously into the space without setting up a whole fund, which I talked about before is not my role, I don't think it's our role to do, but because of the access we have and because of the reach we have, we've never talked about it publicly. So this is definitely a first. That's why we wanted to announce it here, even though some of the listeners have been involved via, via. We've done lots of interesting things, so I'm very happy to unveil here Generation Re. We love the name and also the process of investing in regenerative food and agriculture, which is sort of the name of the podcast.

Speaker 3: 58:59

So, yeah, you've done now I think the stats are 18 deals in total over the last two years, alongside I think we're kind of counting it up now 50 different other region ag, agricultural and food angel investors, which I think is pretty cool and also deployed now well over 1 million US dollars and counting, because obviously we have some live deals at the moment, closing some deals, and in that time also, I think you've got like one acquisition in there. We'll kind of get into that, which is pretty impressive, considering you know many VCs out there. But look, tell me, how did it all start? Give us that story. I always like this story. I think, naeem, maybe you can frame this. How did it all start? Give us that story. I always like this story. I think, naeem, maybe you can frame this. How did it all start? I think you saw Kun on some cap tables and you're like what is going on here? I think it's really nice to kind of start with that story before we kind of get into the portfolio itself.

Speaker 1: 59:59

Yeah, sure, I don't remember exactly which deal and it was probably a couple but I just started investing in the space and maybe doing diligence on a couple of different opportunities. And I met Kun at FutureFest and I think that's where we met, got to know each other, got acquainted and carried on being connected. But I'm looking at some of these opportunities and I see Kuhn on the cap table 2K and I'm sitting there, new to the space, and always asking the same question what's the minimum ticket? I'm not getting the same answer that Kuhn is getting. You know what's the minimum ticket. I'm not getting the same answer that Kuhn is getting.

Speaker 1: 1:00:48

Not that you know we were putting in angel tickets, but it was just. I found it so interesting that you know his access and exposure and you know ability to communicate and network with these companies was just. You know they wanted him to be participating and he wanted to participate. So I thought, you know we have to have a conversation about this. There's an opportunity here and you know, I think also coming from the impact space a little bit. You know we talk about democratization a lot across many different axes, but one of those importantly being investing and that shouldn't be only open to people who can write fund-sized tickets. How does that change? And it seemed immediately like there was some alignment between these ideas.

Speaker 1: 1:01:26

So, you know, I rang Kuhn up, in whatever form of technology we might have used, and was just like you know, I think we can do more, more with this. You're getting a line on the cap table. How do we, you know, open this up? Let's try it out and and I'll help you with it. It'll be easy, don't worry. And I'm not sure kun has, uh, the same feeling about that, that particular detail. But, um, yeah, is that how you remember it? Kun is more or less yeah, I mean we were.

Speaker 2: 1:01:55

We were in touch since future food ways I think with a predecessor or the name of tST, before, definitely at Catapult. I remember like behind the stage there was like a table or something. We met and we stayed in touch and, like you do, you have a call every now and then discuss some deal flow things you were looking at or what do you think of this? What do you think of that, which a number of people do and I'm always happy to share. Of course, it's different if you have an investment in that and then you found us on the cap table somewhere and then it's like let's do a syndicate. And we're like what do you mean? Um, let's, let's give other people access as well. Let's bring a bit more money, because it's more meaningful if you bring 25 or 50k than if you bring two. Um, and and of course depends on the deal, it's still meaningful or not super meaningful, but it's also interesting to give other people access. So we started discovering like what's the minimum, what are our legal fees and all of that magical world, which definitely is more work than I anticipated, chasing people for payments and signatures and things like that, but it's been working and we've done like more than a million redeployed, which I'm super thankful for the support of everyone.

Speaker 2: 1:03:03

Everyone is investing individually, but we have some amazing people in the group, which has been really, really fun to see discussions around deals as well and to see people interested in things or not interested, or knowing companies bringing companies to the syndicate as well, like we're getting access to other things that without the group we would not have, and I think it's the closest thing to community. We've done, of course, the ask me anything, webinars to alma once you're mentioning and, and this sort of feels like a natural extension, like okay, if we pull our money together, if you have, of course, resources and minimum ticket 1k, um, let's see where we get to and let's get exposure and let's get into some things, because most of this for including me are completely impossible to get access to, like minimum tickets 100 000 or 250 000 and like that's for most of this planet, obviously. And so how do we get exposure to early stage deals in the regeneration space that is so early on and and hopefully, some nice exits, or at least we? We participate in some very interesting things.

Speaker 2: 1:04:02

Not all of it's this venture, not all of it's gonna do whatever k we need for returning a fund, but because we don't have a fund, we don't need that. Um, but many of these are going to be interesting companies. I'm pretty pretty sure about it long term. Of course, this is not an early stage or an early, a fast thing at all, um, but it has definitely made it sort of the investing piece and investing in region, ag and food, like the podcast, became real or more real when we started actually investing.

Speaker 3: 1:04:30

Yeah, so on that point of actually investing, do you see any kind of change in the way you view things when you put your money down? Your the way you view things when you put your money down, Was that when you were investing, actually before, even generationary, I think several deals before that. What is did it help you doing this? Has it? Have you seen your the way that you've learned or understood the space differently? Now you put your own money down?

Speaker 2: 1:05:01

Yeah, I definitely did and do. I think we were investing before. I mean, we did Steward and Fence, which was an interesting acquisition, and Future Forest Company, and it's still sort of the approach is the same. Like I really like a company, I like the founders, of course, and I just want to be part of it and part of the ride and part of the rollercoaster ride in many cases, because none of this is easy, of course, with the help of Naeem and also you, anthony and Patch, the process has become much more structured and there are more questions to ask and think because we're putting it in front of a group of people and I think at the beginning now we see it more.

Speaker 2: 1:05:42

Like the brand side is interesting, that is developing. We were talking about the offtake agreements, what is needed offside, and we see actually people developing brands. We mentioned wild farm, which is an invest investment company or a portfolio company of ours, and and uh juntos and others as well. Like we see people with marketing backgrounds and and sales backgrounds starting to to do things. I don't think that was there two, three years ago when I started to put down the first check, so that's different and just the whole set there's enough deals to do one every month and maybe more. Like it sort of feels like the podcast at the beginning, like are there enough stories? Oh, there are actually quite a few. Oh, there are way more. Okay, how do we structure this into a way that we can do more? Quite a few, oh, they're way more. Okay, how do we structure this into a way that we can do more? And, and actually not thinking about it, that might be a similar process we're going through now yeah, I think you mentioned at the start you're three podcasts a month.

Speaker 3: 1:06:33

Um, I think very, very quickly we could be at the same sort of thing, some sort of pace here with generation rate, the pace that this has been kind of going at. I think that's one thing as well, like the deal, how do you for the listeners, how do you source the deals, what happens that process, and then how's the how's the filtering done and what do you take to the community? Because in the end, you are always yourself putting 2k, yourself going out to community and I'm going to back this company. Who's in right?

Speaker 2: 1:07:00

yeah, and it's really. I mean we don't lead any deals. Let's be very clear we don't set pricing. We. We don't have the structure nor the interest, honestly, to to do that, because then you set up a fund at some point or a huge syndicate. Um, we, we see interesting deals. It comes from either one of us or it comes from audience as well, like people in the syndicate that say, look, have you seen the deck of this? Or they're developed here, they're developed there.

Speaker 2: 1:07:25

We've seen sort of two main pieces where we we get involved the two main categories of companies very early on, like super early stage, where our 50 or sometimes 70k tickets really make a difference, or later stage, where we get access to something that that otherwise you wouldn't get access to because of the syndicate and because of the podcast, et cetera. So those two are very different types of deals, of course, because some cases could be millions invested and we're a small part of that. In other cases, the other ones are maybe around of 200 or 250K and we're 50K of that, so we're quite significant. I mean the process is a few calls with the founders, deep dive in the data room, writing up a memo, sharing it with the community and see if people are interested, because of course it's a community thing. I would still do it personally if I could, but it's way nicer if people join and it's very interesting to see some people back everything. Some people are very picky rightfully so, like picky, rightfully so, like they.

Speaker 3: 1:08:28

They connect with what they're interested in, or your geography or place in the value chain, and so then we get a nice group of people together and and hopefully hit our minimums and then it's, then it's a go, yeah. So let's talk about some of those, some of those deals, because I think yeah, you made a good point the along the value chain. There's so much variety here in this portfolio already effectively, um, but one thing is definitely standing out and maybe it is relation to you know, feedback loops, where you've had an acquisition, as you mentioned in Fence, that was in the ruminant space. It definitely seems to be, I would say, a lot of ruminant plays. Here Is this again. We asked you the question what have you learned from this podcast? Are ruminants quite something that you've learned about a lot? Learned from this podcast? Are ruminants quite something you've learned about a lot. Tell us more about some of the the ruminant plays that we've, uh, some of the deals.

Speaker 2: 1:09:09

Yeah, I think it's a constant feature on the podcast the role of animals. Is there a role of animals? And I think we've established, yes, what kind of animals ruminants versus non and and there are a lot of issues around it I think it's the the big key into the future of agriculture. If we get this right, probably both grain in terms of just sheer hectares and acreage and ruminants and they're often connected because it often gets into feed of the other one Like we need to fundamentally change that system. So I'm very interested in people that are doing it and not so interested in people that are arguing for the precision fermentation and the technology or the lab, the factory grown pieces Not that I don't think it's going to play a role, but I think, like how do we, with some limited technology or new we don't have to invent a lot of new things to change the role of ruminants fundamentally from what we have now, which is a very high input, very high emissions system, to actually regenerating landscapes. So I'm very interested in technology in that space. We're interested in companies, like we did. We featured them well as well here.

Speaker 2: 1:10:10

Collie virtual fencing I mean fence was the first virtual fencing company, or one of the first, and then also got acquired.

Speaker 2: 1:10:16

We did that before the syndicate, but we've invested in collie in no fence, definitely on the, the virtual fencing side roomy as well in the UK. Um, so we're we're definitely heavy on the on the ruminant side of things because I think the, the change potential is and the opportunity is so large, like in terms of reducing emissions and in terms of potentially storing and return. In terms of sheer acreage, um, yeah, it's just more relevant. It seems like I'm not saying you should work on that, but in terms of hectaresage, um, it's just more relevant. It seems like I'm not saying you should work on that, but in terms of hectares for vegetables, it's just way smaller and so the lever is just much smaller. And, and I have to say, the, the founders in this space are just also fascinating people. They're all fascinating, but the room in space seems to be attracting some very interesting people as well yeah, I think it's interesting the fact that, like it's obviously appearing in the portfolio.

Speaker 3: 1:11:04

I think, as you said, there's actually quite a lot of competition appearing innovation there. Like there's several fencing companies, for example, it shows there's an opportunity here. There's always a good signal in the market. Um, you know, I think we echo the same sort of opinion that tft as well. Um, but yeah, I think the ruminant stack can't be ignored. It is a 1.7 trillion industry. I think some people forget that. It's like you can't just remove the cow.

Speaker 3: 1:11:32

As well as the kind of data but in that you mentioned it as well earlier on is brands I think it's quite interesting. Or the off-takers. I think we're starting to see more come into us in the deal, for then I think we're building more conviction that we've got to put some support here. The community wants to support more emerging brands. Should we talk about some of those ones you've done? I mean you mentioned Wildfire. We can talk about that. I think Huntos is a very interesting one. We should talk about that. I think huntos is a is a very interesting one. We should talk about that. I was really interested in that in that deal and how well that went yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:12:10

I mean both of those deals um I think naeem coined the term or heard it somewhere as well but the megaphones in the space, like people that are able to to reach a lot more people outside our echo chamber, meaning customers, consumers, people that are actually buying this stuff, and or people that just visit a random restaurant and get inspired and things like that. And so wild farmed is um now even more known, I think, with with amazon prime going live these days when we're recording this with clarkson's farm, um, if you live in the uk, you can find it in supermarkets. So, really trying to reinvent the grain value chain. And is it perfect? No, is it a massive step beyond everything we've seen? Yes, and is it reaching a lot of people and a lot of farmers? Yes, and so it's really interesting to be part of that and just to see what they've reached in two, three years plus, of course, 10 years of indicator farming in southern France and discovering all the difficulties that comes with that. And Juntos is in a similar place, actually in Ibiza, really using a restaurant and farms. There they operate two farms, really using that as a showcase of what's possible with food and using that then to get into the essential oil business and sourcing that from mainland Spain. We've had Christian the founder on the podcast as well, so really trying to go beyond. Okay, we need to regenerate this amazing piece of paradise called Ibiza, where, of course, money is flowing around and a lot of issues are with farming, but it's tiny. But how do we influence the millions of actors in the Iberian Peninsula that are starting to become a desert? And how do you back Yannick and Alfonso, two farmers there that we also had on here, to start sourcing from them, paying them well and make sure many actors are touched? So we like to.

Speaker 2: 1:13:56

It's a complex business.

Speaker 2: 1:13:57

If you look at it from a VC or a very narrow fund perspective, probably you would look at Juntus and think, okay, okay, there's too many moving parts, but we see it as if it works.

Speaker 2: 1:14:05

You need all the moving parts together, otherwise complex systems don't work, and that's probably also a clash with with. If we would do a fund or some kind of structure like that, you need to be very narrow and and in this case, like with the podcast, we could just follow our interest and of course, it needs to be a good business and good business plan and experienced team, etc. But it doesn't have to be a good business and good business plan and experienced team, et cetera. But it doesn't have to be in a specific only category. We only do inputs or we only do composting machines or something like that. That would just not fly, because our interest takes us to the full stack of things we need, because, again, there are no silver bullets that fix everything in the food system overnight, unfortunately, and I think many investors have learned that the hard way in some of the boom and busts we've seen in the last couple of years.

Speaker 3: 1:14:53

Yeah, I think I've learned so much, even as an investor myself, as a part of the community as well. It's built my confidence that these brands are going to be so important in kind of driving the change, and also, underneath that is, these brands are also showing the infrastructure for them to scale. It's not there, from the data to the actual hard infrastructure. And we've done a deal with Cairns Springs. We supported that one, which is essentially a regenerative mill, right Milling infrastructure.

Speaker 2: 1:15:25

Who would have ever thought?

Speaker 3: 1:15:26

that, yeah, but then another one which really surprised me was because it was so early, but again, there's some similarities here in infrastructure and brand and offtake was succursumor the topic of polluter culture. Tell the listeners about that one.

Speaker 2: 1:15:47

uh, it really surprised me I mean it's it's a bit of an outlier, not because it was so early, maybe, but because I mean peatland rewetting is is not a thing we we cover all the time on on the podcast we will we'll get this company on for sure but we met julia and the team through ecosia actually, who was super enthusiastic and also is investing, and so that also shows like we're not discovering these as the first and then go in and decide that this is amazing. We try to follow people that are putting first of all, more money in and also more time. So we definitely are followers, usually the last money in. But we got excited. Peland re-wetting If you don't know, look up the drawdown articles project drawdown like it's a massive carbon risk at the moment and most of the peatlands have not been re-wetted yet and have lost a lot of carbon and it's a massive opportunity.

Speaker 2: 1:16:37

There are not really many business models apart from um some around uh water buffaloes and things like that, and we have to re-wet if we want to hit any of the carbon um targets we have, and so they've come up with with a model. It's super early. We asked the community because we were discussing it internally, like this might sense a bit too early. They're pre-revenue, they're buying their first farm on their first peatland and they uh, yeah, we have to still see if carbon credits are going to come out of this.

Speaker 2: 1:17:02

Machinery is tricky Seeds, is not so easy because not many people are doing this, but we have a WhatsApp group on potential deals and we asked it and it was a very live discussion, like people were, but the majority was yeah, that's why we're doing this, and a few people didn't, which is absolutely fine. This is on a deal by deal basis. You don't have to do anything. But there was enough enthusiasm to put it in front of our larger group and say, okay, are we doing this? And the response was strong and so we invested, together with some other people, into re-wetting of peatlands, which, if you asked me a year ago, I would probably say like what?

Speaker 1: 1:17:39

Just echoing that.

Speaker 1: 1:17:45

You know it's super interesting to see the community come together and the conversation that's generated and just the angles of not only interest but knowledge that come to be deployed and discussed, and hearing people talk about this stuff and their exposure, you know, tendentially to maybe something like any of the deals, and it's just so insightful and I think, from our perspective as a venture investor where you know, like you mentioned, you know we want to be precise and principled about a thesis, we need to know when to say no and where we can add specific value to make, you know, to make bigger bets, bigger bets it's been incredibly interesting and rewarding to be exposed to more of the value chain where we can see where the digital infrastructure is needed and where we can provide support, and it just also really helps to bring together the understanding of how complex the system is.

Speaker 1: 1:18:37

There's so many stakeholders playing in so many different parts of this and if we're really talking about systems change, then we need exposure to all of it and we need to see and understand and learn from it, and I think you'd say this often like there's no better way to learn and you know, have you've, you've seen that on your journey and I think you know, are you seeing that, from from the people who are participating with us as well in Generation Re.

Speaker 2: 1:19:02

Absolutely. I think I see people. I mean, there's no better way to learn than doing this. And if you're not going to build a company yet or maybe you don't there's no, I think, better way to do than investing a bit here and there, of course, only with money that you don't need right now or in the next 10 years. This is risky stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:19:23

We're very early in many cases, but it's really really relevant to be, because this is goes way beyond the egg funder updates or or things like that. Like you see real companies from the inside and real struggles and real opportunities and real insight from founders that are, as we know, in many cases, are super happy to come on webinars after to answer any questions. Like this is the crew we have on the podcast regularly that are really open to share. Of course, they're open to share a bit more if they're talking to an investor in their actual company, and so I think the act of investing and the act of putting money to work and the act of having skin in the game, whatever is meaningful to you Of course, we have people with different size wallets, let's say, in the space, but the act of doing that is very different than just talking about it. Of course the act of buying a wild farm bread in the supermarket is great as well, and sharing Clarkson's episodes and all of that.

Speaker 2: 1:20:15

But to be actually exposed to it and to be able to lose the money because that's gonna happen in some of these cases is a very different feeling. I know this with me. It's very different. That's why I asked the question the first time. I don't remember if it was stewart or um jim of the future force company now became undue or demerged and split. But like what's the minimum ticket? Like that's quite a commitment to make and you have to wire the money and it's not always easy. You have to find different platforms and but actually you, you are a significant amount of money 2000 euros to me is a lot of money and so then it's gone for a while and maybe gone forever. So it's it's a very different emotional thing. But you learn a lot from. I read the investor updates very differently when I'm an investor or not, because yeah, your, your money is on the line.

Speaker 3: 1:21:05

And obviously, yeah, you mentioned that there, there's other. We've actually there's other deals we've done in here. We've actually invested in operators actually as well, um, actual farm operators from the foundation, farm, tree range farms, agroforestry, raised chickens. I absolutely love that one. Um, I'm excited for more in in space, certainly, but is there a deal you really want to do in a category I think you're alluding to earlier, like inputs or something like that, other than Undo? It's probably the only input company I think we've actually done. Is there something that you're thinking about? I would love to see an innovation in that space, or a shout out to the listeners if you've got something exciting brewing in this space about we'd love to see an innovation in that space, or a shout out to the listeners if you've got something exciting brewing in this space, we'd love to hear I mean, I get a lot of deals on the input side and that's why we're doing a series with because I don't know enough about the space.

Speaker 2: 1:21:55

I don't feel confident to and they all look amazing. We've seen the decks as well. Together like they look amazing, they seem to be the silver bullet for everything and everything that the side-by-side photos look amazing and and I did, but I just don't know enough about it. That's why we're going to do a series with with john kemp, specifically unpacking that like, what are the mental frameworks and investing frameworks you need? Um, if you don't have to become a biology guru to understand inputs, because I do think they're fundamental for the transition, but parking that aside. So I'm going to wait until that series is done so I have a better, a better framework of saying yes or no.

Speaker 2: 1:22:28

I think what I would love to see is is the nutrient density and quality piece and food as medicine? Like, who are? What are companies on the measurement side? But also companies because we don't need to do only technology like that companies that bring this to people that really need it. Like, where can we have the biggest impact in the this ultra processed food, junk food addiction we're in? Might be elderly, might be children, might be people trying to to to get pregnant, might be whatever. But who is going to build companies around it and how can we invest in that?

Speaker 2: 1:23:01

I think that that's just very, very interesting to me. Is going to be companies around it and how can we invest in that? I think that that's just very, very interesting to me. Is it going to be impact bonds, outcome-based, like? What kind of innovation are we going to see there, not only for the people that go to the farmer's market and already get exposed to this food, but how do you get it to people that really need it? Is that even investable? Is that a government thing? But we need way more food as medicine companies.

Speaker 3: 1:23:24

Yeah, but we need way more food as medicine companies. Yeah, definitely, I think we talked about it on a point. Now. Children's food is what I would like to see Some sort of food as healthcare children's food. Where's the regenerative children's food? Obviously, I was a father of two and maybe I've changed my opinion on this kind of stuff in recent years, but it's actually quite shocking that I actually can't find these kind of brands that exist, but it feels like a gaping opportunity. So hopefully that's an inspiration for many to look at that. But anyway, back to the community. What I love about the community side. I mean, what surprised you most about the community so far? I know it's only been going two years, but for me there's been a few kind of jump outs, but for you, what surprised you most?

Speaker 2: 1:24:13

I mean, we have some people in the community and if you're listening you know who you are that's simply been backing all deals, or most deals, which is amazing, and basically see it as a learning experience, like a cheap mba and and some places put significant money, some other and just simply, um, wanting to learn, wanting to get exposure, maybe skipping one or two, but really just being there without asking a lot of questions, not asking for a lot of time and and that's really been fascinating to see that. And we sort of have a core group there, which is great, and they really make it possible that others can join and not join based on personal space, financial space, et cetera, and it's been growing. That, I find as well. You always think, ooh, are we going to find enough deal flow? Or ooh, are we going to find enough people? Like you always think, oh, are we going to find enough deal flow? Or oh, are we going to find enough people, like, maybe at some point it's just done and just been growing over time and over time, we just broke another record in terms of, uh, of investing, investing and uh for hours, like in terms of deal size, what we put to work, and so, yeah, the the list has been growing in terms of people and and also the amount we put to work and the amount of deal flow, um, so that's been extremely, and the conversations as well with people.

Speaker 2: 1:25:25

Like it gets to a different level when it's about money and, oh, the podcast is nice, or yeah, of course, um, but then, okay, so you really like this company, I love this episode about this and this, and, okay, did you put money to work? And like, oh, no, yeah, I should have done that and and and like it really gets different if you know that they, they were on the list and they had exposure to it and they didn't do it and then they still loved the company. Um, it's interesting because then it's like, okay, what made you, um, not put in one or two k just to be part of it? And they're like, yeah, yeah, so it's. It's a different emotion there, which I completely understand. I'm not blaming anybody here, but it's interesting. Uh, like, can you, as the investor group in the netherlands it's called, put your money where your mouth is? Like, if you can, why don't you? And I would love to know why, because I'm curious about it yeah, I think I totally agree and I never.

Speaker 3: 1:26:14

One thing that stood out for me was some of the community now recently, has been obviously bringing us deals, as we've talked about before, but also like wanting to kind of help with the due diligence process, the writing up of the notes, and yeah, it's not a, it's not, as you know, simple learning anything on that?

Speaker 2: 1:26:30

simply because, simply because they want to be part of it, they wanted us to do the deal so they could invest in it and they couldn't have done it otherwise. And so they helped uh, shout out to alexis helped with, with diligence, writing a memo and making this happen, and so, yeah, that's been fascinating.

Speaker 3: 1:26:46

Yeah, definitely, if we want to encourage that even more. And in the end, this is a community I think that's the echo of the pointers we're always open to ideas and how to kind of further this and make this better. So what is ahead for January or generationary, however we call it, naeem or Kun, what is it? If people are interested, how do they get involved as well? That'd be kind of good.

Speaker 1: 1:27:12

I can do a short response and then I'll pass it to you, kun. You know, like you mentioned, I think, growing the community, it's like you just asked and Kun just answered it's been such a valuable part of the community. It's like you just asked and Kun just answered it's been such a valuable part of the process. It's about democratizing access and bringing more people into the mix. So I think we have an opportunity here to do that and, similar to the question I asked you earlier, like, what needs to happen in the space is more activity. Right, we're trying to bring more capital into space and just more, more activity. Right, we're trying to bring more capital into space, get more conversation. More exactly, we're regenerating, investment in regenerative agriculture, investment, and you know it's, it's been interesting, and I think that would be the most rewarding to seeing more and more people show up and every conversation is interesting and you know, you've you, you've seen this over 300 episodes and many more conversations.

Speaker 1: 1:28:06

Many people arrive at this space from a different angle and the number of backgrounds that you hear that just have nothing to do with ag or food and they say now, this is my passion and this is where I'm spending my time, is super interesting.

Speaker 1: 1:28:18

So I think providing a bit of a platform for for those people to exposure and learn, dip their toe in and see if they want to spend more time and I think we're building this is just one part of an ecosystem of opportunity where your course is an interesting way for people to get in and learn about the space. And then even the podcast for me was another way that I got to ramp up my education very quickly. Even the podcast for me was another way that I got to ramp up my education very quickly and hopefully this can be another way for people to then practically get involved and say, okay, I am going to get some skin in the game and see what that feels like and if I want to do that more. So I think growing the community, I would say from a kind of abstract perspective, is what's ahead. I think that will be super interesting and yeah, I mean you can then throw in your two cents there. And also, how do people get involved?

Speaker 2: 1:29:08

Definitely get involved if you want to. Of course, this is for sophisticated investors only. We use a platform in the UK called Odin and they do the screening for that, but you can sign up. You can get information on the deals we have open and more information on terms and all of that, and also the portfolio we've done until now because we didn't have a time to, of course, cover all of them here on gen-reland and, of course, find the link in the show notes below. So it's gen-reland and very simple sign up form. Get on the list if you want to, and we have a WhatsApp group as well where we discuss a lot of deals, insights, things and other random things around investing in regenerative food and agriculture.

Speaker 3: 1:29:59

So I think, to round us up, I think there's the question probably everyone's been waiting to hear which Kuhn asks all his guests. Obviously, this is not investment advice, advice, you always get that in there, I always enjoy that bit. But what would you do, coon, if you had 1 billion euros, dollars, pounds, whatever is the best powerful currency at that point in time? What would you spend that 1 billion on? Now you've had 300 episodes to think about this. This better be good.

Speaker 2: 1:30:24

Yeah, so I'm going to quote one of our interviewees. I think it's still the best answer. I would probably put a bit aside actually for some lobbying, simply because it seems such a high reward if it works for such a low investment. I think we need a much stronger lobby in Brussels and Washington to begin with, and London probably as well, in terms of let's move away the subsidy schemes and all the hidden streams of money from the extractive system. But it would be, yeah, a small amount of the 1 billion. The rest, a significant amount, would go, I think, to how to put it to work, I don't know exactly, but indigenous tribes, like how do we safeguard the last bit of biodiversity we have left? I know it's a cliche answer, but not enough money goes in in that direction at all. And then the rest, and let's say what we have left. Maybe half of it is left.

Speaker 2: 1:31:16

And we had a guest gustav on the show that said how do you tap into the wisdom of the crowd? How do you tap not the general crowd, the crowd? How do you not the general crowd, but actually the informed crowd, let's say people that have listened to this podcast many times, and somehow you would have a way to measure that. I don't know how. Of course he was on the blockchain uh train, so you would know people that have spent time listening to a significant portion of the episodes and guests. Like we have 300 guests until now, some repeat, so let's say 250, um, and then somehow figure out a way like how would they put their money to work? And it could be a small amount, could be through the syndicate, could be in other ways, but how do you see where people actually not what people say, but what people actually do, and and then back that or follow that or somehow, maybe with with 10k or 100k or 100x more, but somehow follow what people do. Experts or experienced people in the space follow what they do and try to to back them more.

Speaker 2: 1:32:09

And I think it's still the most elegant answer I've heard. I don't know how to do the practice, don't, don't get too excited, but how do we? Because I don't know either. I know where to ask, I know who to call for different questions, but don't ask me how to farm or don't ask me how to to do a lot of these things. But I think together there is quite a wisdom in the informed crowd and the informed crowd is is partly listening to this podcast and partly we've interviewed them, and so somehow, if we would follow what they do, not what they say, I think it would be very interesting. Again, practicalities. I don't know how to do that, but I like it in in theory what beautiful way to end the podcast definitely it's been.

Speaker 1: 1:32:51

It's been amazing. Kuhn, congrats again on 300 episodes and thank you for all you do. It's been rewarding and educational for for me personally and, and I'm sure, for many of the audience, and I hope you keep it going. I'm excited to see what's coming.

Speaker 2: 1:33:08

Me too. Thank you for turning the tables this time and unpacking and launching or no, not launching announcing a significant milestone not only the 300, but also, publicly Generation Re, which has been a blast, apart from chasing signatures and things like that. But we've now got that covered with a platform and and it's all. Uh, it's very exciting, one of the many things I mean. It starts very small. Just keep going and and see if there's enough, uh, interesting stories in case of the podcast, and interesting deals in case of the syndicate, and see where it goes. I would have never mentioned, of course, 300 episodes and whatever downloads we have, and this would turn into a almost full-time, uh, full-time job. So let's see where, where it goes episode 500, 750, whatever. And would we do that in a metaverse or in in audio only? We have no clue.

Speaker 1: 1:34:00

Indeed Excited.

Speaker 2: 1:34:15

Thank you so much for listening all the way to the end. For the show notes and links we discussed in this episode, check out our website investinginregenerativeagriculturecom. Forward slash posts. If you liked this episode, why not share it with a friend or give us a rating on Apple Podcasts? That really helps. Thanks again and see you next time.