Investing in Regenerative Agriculture and Food
Investing in Regenerative Agriculture and Food
340 Juliette Simonin - Teaching over 400.000 consumers that a farm isn’t a screw factory while selling them 4,7m boxes of organic and regen fruit and veggies straight from the farm
A conversation with Juliette Simonin, co-founder and COO of CrowdFarming, a company that works with over 320 farmers and sells fruit and veggies boxes directly to 400.000 consumers. In this discussion, we explore how Juliette transitioned from working at a large insurance company to co-founding Europe's largest direct-to-consumer organic fruit and vegetable platform.
How do they educate these consumers that a farm is not a screw factory, and that every fruit is different? Delivery times depend on harvests and weather. The conversation also touches on how they keep consumers engaged in the process of growing fruits, and how vital it is for farmers to know there is a growing demand for their organic produce as they make changes to their practices.
Finally, we discuss why CrowdFarming is focused on helping farmers transition toward regenerative practices. Spoiler alert: resilience is a key driver. This resilience is also why the company bootstrapped for most of its early years before eventually deciding to take on outside capital.
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How do you go from working at a large insurance company to go and co-found Europe's largest direct-to-consumer organic fruit and vegetables platform, working with over 320 farmers and 400,000, that's a four, a hundred and a thousand consumers? How do you educate these consumers that a farm isn't a screw factory and that every fruit is different and that delivery depends on harvesting and thus the weather. Different, and that delivery depends on harvesting and thus the weather? How do you keep consumers involved in the process of growing fruits so they, between brackets, forgive you when the fruit arrives a few days later because of extreme weather? And how do you explain prices and transparency to them? And then, on the farmer's side, imagine how important it is for farmers wanting to make changes to know that there is demand, and growing demand, for their fruits and vegetables in the future. And why are they working specifically on having farmers transition towards more regenerative practices? Spoiler alert it's resilience in many cases, and how and why they bootstrapped the company for many years and then decided to take outside capital.
Speaker 1:This is the Investing in Regenerative Agriculture and Food podcast Investing as if the planet mattered, where we talk to the pioneers in the regenerative food and agriculture space to learn more on how to put our money to work to regenerate soil, people, local communities and ecosystems, while making an appropriate and fair return. Why my focus on soil and regeneration? Because so many of the pressing issues we face today have their roots in how we treat our land and our sea, grow our food, what we eat, wear and consume, and it's time that we as investors big and small and consumers, start paying much more attention to the dirt slash, soil underneath our feet. To make it easy for fans to support our work, we launched our membership community and so many of you have joined us as a member. Thank you. If our work created value for you and if you have the means and only if you have the means consider joining us. Find out more on gumroadcom slash investing in RegenAg that is, gumroadcom slash investing in RegenAg or find the link below Welcome to another episode today with the co-founder of Crowdfarming, the AgriSocial Revolution.
Speaker 1:They're working with over 300 farmers and directly sell stuff to 350,000 consumers. This is not. I mean, it's small and cute and we'll get to that, but it's definitely also quite a machine they're building. We've had Christina on the show in May last year and I'm very happy to have Juliet here to one of the co-founders to talk us through her journey and, of course, to dive much deeper into this direct-to-consumer machine that she and many of the colleagues are building. So welcome, juliette.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. I'm really happy to be here.
Speaker 1:And to start with the personal question, we always start with what led your path towards thinking and acting most of your wake hours about how to get the best tasting organic and many actually on their way to regenerative fruit and vegetables and more to consumers on their kitchen table. What led you to spending most of your wake hours on that very important but also a very niche in that case, problem?
Speaker 2:Yes, well, I'm not sure it's so niche, but we can discuss about it later. I think the answer would be very simple in that case. I think I'm someone I love eating. I enjoy a lot meeting the people that have prepared the food, and so once you start digging into the food industry and agriculture and you see all the problems, then you're like but it's so important for everyone to eat every day, to eat healthy, to get access to those products. Well, you start thinking there is a lot of things to do and you can get very passionate about it.
Speaker 1:Yes, and at the same time, that doesn't mean I mean you can get very passionate on cooking and sourcing well yourself and, let's say, in the personal side of things, but at some point you decided to spend most of your work time as well on on these issues and very hands-on, like what happened there, like did you straight out of of high school or university, I mean depending what you did when to work in the food space or what was your, what was your path no, no, okay.
Speaker 2:so that's uh. No, no, because I started working in an insurance company where I learned a lot. It was great and I was doing um, lots of uh in a very global group. Uh. So we were. I was working a lot with south america, with africa it was really with Africa. I really loved it.
Speaker 2:But then I was thinking I'd like maybe to use my time to do something that would be more useful for the world, or at least how I saw it myself and that's where I started to think well, I don't know, I'm always seeing news about those protests about the agriculture, and then all those problems we see. And there is this issue with milk in France that is being contaminated and then they're telling us we're eating that and then it's turned out it's not beef but it's horses. And then you see so many news about that and I was like maybe I want to change that and I'm sure there are solutions to that. Also, I was very convinced I was already looking at options myself to eat healthy and everything, and I guess life just gives you some answers sometimes.
Speaker 2:While I was trying to get to know people working in that and changing that, I got to know two of my co-founders today, which are two brothers, which are Gabriel and Gonzalo Urculo, which own a farm. They still own a farm, apart from being co-founders of Crowdfarming, and they had set up already at that time a very, very different system which I just thought was completely like, made so much sense and had so much potential to change things. So we started talking, talking, talking and in the end, with another co-founder, moises, we decided that we would create Crowdfarming to replicate their success at Naranjas del Carmen, which is the name of their farm, and to give access to all at least for now, to all farmers in Europe so that they could replicate and do the same as Naranjas del Carmen is doing. And that's how it all started. So let's say it was like I was looking for an answer and then I met the right people.
Speaker 1:And that step, going from because they were quite successful already, I think, selling things from their farm straight to the consumer, mostly in Spain, but then taking it's quite a leap to say, okay, let's replicate this for another 299 other farmers in the rest of Europe. Like, what was the trigger there? Or what was the need to do that? Or because of course, it could have been for sure easier quote unquote to just stay with that farm, maybe diversify it a bit, maybe two or three neighbors and that would be it, and then you live an easy life instead of building quite a massive organization, which of course you didn't know when you started doing that. But that trigger was there. Like, let's actually start our own distribution channels, let's actually start competing or going around supermarkets and distribution channels that are absolutely not fair at the moment. Like, what was the trigger? Was it you arriving at the farm and saying why did you do this for other farmers? Or how did that happen?
Speaker 2:I think it was kind of both, in the sense that, to be honest, there was a moment when Gabriel and Gonzalo's farm was growing, they were actually trying to buy some land next to their farm and they did, they did grow. So they were seeing trying to buy some land next to their farm and they did, they did grow. So they were seeing okay, we're growing, it's working. And then they have some neighbors, which is an interesting point already, which is an interesting point.
Speaker 1:Like a farmer a young farmer, because these are not the 60 plus year olds that grows his farm because of demand and not because it's an industrial scale farm that needed to buy the neighbor because of the cost and the new machinery and et cetera Like this was because of growing demand for organic they decided to expand. Just I'm putting a note in there like a seed in the mind of listeners that exists people.
Speaker 2:If you build up demand you can grow.
Speaker 2:No, no, absolutely, and it was actually just to give maybe a bit more of context. They got very famous for one thing they did differently, which is called the adoption model, which is it's an orange citrus fruit farm, and mainly oranges at the beginning. Now they also do olive oil, they've grown, but at the beginning it was mainly oranges, and they offered their customers to adopt an orange tree and to receive the harvest when it's harvest season, and people got crazy with it because they could. Of course, they created a link. They were telling them about what was happening on the farm. They were actually giving news pictures and it got so viral that they had 10,000 people on their waiting list because they didn't have enough trees. And that's also when, at the moment when I met them, actually they started to be quite famous, at least in their area and also in Spain, because it was never seen, and so, indeed, they started to grow their farm. But then they were like, oh, my neighbors also want some help. That would be great, I could help them out. And actually they did.
Speaker 2:Like my three co-founders, they did do something before I met them, which was trying to set up some websites for their neighbors so that they could sell the same system, like adoption, and with a website, everything online. And it turned out it failed. And that was actually the trigger to think bigger. And it failed because we realized farmers didn't need only a website. They needed also someone managing for them logistics, which is tricky and you need to think about it. They needed someone to help them out with marketing customer service, because, gonzalo and Gabriel, they have always sold to Europe and a lot to Germany, where their fruits were very much. Well, there were many customers that were looking for their fruits because it's also life right. They went to Germany, they did Erasmus there. They met people. So when they came back to Spain, they're selling their oranges. Their friends from Germany were saying, oh yeah, do send me your oranges, they're so good. Apart from that, from what they can compare to what they can find in supermarkets. So they grew big in Germany, but, of course, if you're a farmer in Spain, maybe you cannot manage the customer service in German.
Speaker 2:So all of that they started to see it didn't work. It was not only the website that was needed and that's where we started to think okay, we need to create a platform which is a one-stop shop for farmers where they can plug their activity into it and we give them the services so that they can really be well, fully dedicated to their land, but also able to sell in a different manner, which is a fairer manner for them, fairer for the environment and fairer for the consumer. Why is it fairer for the consumer? Because we're giving you a price. That is true. You give a fair price to the farmer and you get fresh fruits because we pick up on demand. So it's not like you know, their fruits are waiting for you in a cold chamber for a month and it's the right price and they're sent then. So, anyways, all of that was that's how we got to the idea of a platform.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just to iterate on that, you have a post, which I will put in the show notes as well, on the website on how you get to pricing, which is fascinating because you will never see a supermarket do that.
Speaker 2:And complicated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very complicated. None of this is easy folks, Please don't underestimate that. And of course, the price for the farmer and the picking on demand, I think is such an underestimated. By the time this is out, our interview with Natura with Franco, will be out as well which is only about flavor basically, and much more. But like how important that is for flavor.
Speaker 1:And we've noticed that with oranges we ship from Southern Italy like they are on the tree on Sunday, on the truck on Monday and then on Thursday in, for instance, the Netherlands, and the flavor and the smell is completely different. We had peaches through crowd farming and the smell, just the smell of the box, is different than anything you can ever get somewhere else. So let alone the flavor, which is obviously off the chart. That freshness and not waste, I mean, could still be waste if not everything is sold, but at least it's not laying somewhere and then maybe gets sold, maybe not, and I think that is an underestimated big piece of that. But it also means distribution has to be completely different. It's not that you can rely on the current flows. Let's say, how did that start when you joined? Okay, we're also going to drive our own trucks, or how did that happen?
Speaker 2:Well, we've been thinking and joking about driving our own trucks for a long time, but we still don't do it. So this is not something we do. No, it's been hard, more than anything, to be efficient Because, of course, when you're shipping the products, the more volume you have and that's how the industry works in logistics the better prices and the more efficient you can get, which is also important for us because, in terms of logistics, we try to be extremely efficient, also in terms of CO2 emissions. So we want full trucks, we want to take the best routes. So there were two solutions to that. The first one has been technology. In the end, we have developed a very strong API for technology in terms of everything that is related to logistics, for the system to help us out, group the orders, find the right moment, the right route. Which stop should we make? And this is why, on crowd farming, you get like it's not the platform where you say I want to receive that order on September 5th. No, it's considering your address. We're offering these dates, so it's a bit of a change for the consumer. We're offering these dates, so it's a bit of a change for the consumer.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing has been really to test and to convince logistic and transport providers and power sales providers that this was the future and that made sense. And it was not easy. We had times where there were some of them saying, oh no, I will never take food on my trucks, it doesn't make sense. So we had to fight a bit, but I think now we can be quite happy to say that. Well, there was also COVID, which changed a bit the mindset about food and shipping and everything. But now it's something that is, I mean, it's not a surprise for parcel providers. When we go up to them and say, okay, we'd like to develop this route, we think you can give us a solution, but it's been difficult.
Speaker 1:How much of a headache is logistics still for your site?
Speaker 2:It is. It is still. It's also fun. But you have to think about it like this it changes all the time. New problems, new solutions. Just to give you an idea from now we've grown. For the last seven years we've been working on that. We now have our own picking center in Spain. We have some what we call third-party logistics also in Spain, in Italy, in France, we're starting one in Germany. So of course, the picture gets bigger and bigger. But because of that, logistics is more than I would say. More than one third of our company is people working for that. It's a huge part because of course, as you were saying, you don't want to be actually trying to solve a problem about food and then create food waste. You need to be extremely efficient, like you're doing the right job with the farmers, you're doing the picking right, then you need to make sure that the fruits are delivered correctly.
Speaker 1:And on the farmer side, how do you manage that sort of expectation? You're now over 300 farmers. How do you manage that sort of expectation? You're now over 300 farmers. Um, how big of a revenue are you for some of them? How do you make sure you don't just sell a few bottles of olive oil or a few boxes of oranges and you're meaningful to them but at the same time you want a nice, a nice offering, let's say for, uh, for the. Of course that gets on the website. How do you manage that balance?
Speaker 2:Well, actually it's a big part of my job currently to manage that balance. So what we try to do is that we really follow up on the availability of products we have with our farmers and we from experience have learned, depending on demand, that from a certain point we need to add another farmer. So we work more on a today to enter crowd farming for a farmer. We have a waiting list in some areas or some types of products which we're trying to. Actually we're trying to make them enter, but of course, we want to make sure we have the demand for that, because it doesn't make sense for them either just to get into the process and everything. So this is something we monitor a lot.
Speaker 2:It's true that we have a very clear now concept on how it must work, because for us it's important. We're not exclusive with the farmers and we wouldn't want that in the sense that, except if they want it, we have some cases where farmers now are selling all their harvest through us, but it's a very few cases that have been with us for a long time and at the beginning we always try to for the first harvest to be, let's say, to take our time and to see with the farmers okay, maybe this year we'll try to sell together 10% of your harvest and let's see how it goes, and that way we get to learn each other, to learn how to work with each other, and then, step by step, the farmer decides whether or not they want to give us more of their harvest or not, which what, for us, is really a good signal is that we have like farmers are not leaving us from one season to the other, and usually they're giving us more harvest, which is always very good news.
Speaker 2:So, but it's a step-by-step process.
Speaker 1:And on the finance side, like when you joined and you said, okay, we're gonna open this up and build this platform. How did you go about it, did you? I don't think you raised any early VC money or any of the like fancy PowerPoints. I think you bootstrapped for quite a while. Was it a conscious decision? Was it a decision out of necessity, or was it just let's get to work and see where we get to?
Speaker 2:I think it was a conscious decision and it was also. We were very fortunate because the company Gonfalo and Gabriel have was ready to invest some money. So we use this company as an umbrella, if I may say so, to develop crowd farming and see if it worked. And we were the four founders. We were convinced that we really needed to focus on demonstrate that it works and that we can be profitable with this model, in this scheme, before trying to scale too much. So we were like at the beginning we were quite small a few farmers, many friends that we had known from fairs or that we really trusted, and we knew that we could fail. It would be okay with them because they knew what we're trying to do. And that's how, step-by step, we started to create something that was, to be honest, quite strong and we could demonstrate that it worked. And that's when we went to for VC money, because we said, ok, we need to scale, it's starting to show and we don't have the resources to do what we want to do now.
Speaker 1:And when was that moment or when did you start to realize, okay, we need money from outside, or we need I mean, we the first two weeks of COVID in Europe arriving very strong.
Speaker 2:We had this feeling like, oh my God, maybe people won't buy anymore because they think the farmers are touching the fruits and they have COVID, and so they're stressed. And so we had a panic attack and we're like, maybe we're going to have to close the company. How many months runway do we have? What should we do? And then, now, seeing it with what happened, we're like, oh my God, it was actually the contrary. We ran out of every product.
Speaker 2:We were looking for farmers, like crazy, it was completely. Farmers were looking for us because they weren't selling to restaurants anymore. So we're like, okay, maybe you can save me a bit from the situation I'm going through, but definitely that was when we started to see, because of COVID, that people were going to buy online, that we said we need more people. We need more people especially in tech, because we need to develop new things and on the ground, with the farmers, because we have a team of agronomists working with the farmers on the ground just to help them out, on lots of services which we can discuss afterwards, and one of them is, of course, being regenerative agriculture. But that was really the moment we realized, okay, there is demand and we need to go faster.
Speaker 1:And how did you end up picking? Because you're at that moment in a position of strength, like you're running a company that could also do fine without outside money. I mean, you want to scale up. But even if that wouldn't have happened because there was nobody to invest maybe that whole market also stopped because of COVID, who knows? But you ended up with Evergreen Capital from Triodos. Like how did you go about and search, okay, who fits with us? Because you weren't a startup as just an idea and a nice PowerPoint and you had to take money from anybody that wanted to give it to you. You could actually pick and choose. Like how did that process happen?
Speaker 2:That process was quite complicated. We've had. It was not a straightforward process, to be very honest. We have we've had discussions and we said, oh, we're not sure where we're there in terms of feeling and culture, where we're there in terms of feeling and culture, and so of course, we wanted to have for us some VC that would really understand what we're trying to do and not only see the numbers in the end, because sometimes you have to make, even if we do believe of course we need to be profitable. We're not an NGO and we think it wouldn't make sense to try to change the food system if you're just making something that is not sustainable on the long term in terms of financials.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you need more time, and that's also the problem with regenerative.
Speaker 2:I think it's all linked right. We're talking about nature, you make an investment, the harvest is next year and usually in VC world, when you're talking about SaaS or stuff like that, it's not like you're going to wait for one year to see if there's a result in the development you were supposed to make. So that was really a good criteria to select VC. It was to see if they could wait for this year or year and a half sometimes to see results and really believe in that. Or if it was like oh my God, guys, you know you need to, because, of course, when it's technology, we do, like any tech company, we're fast, but when it's related to nature and farmers, well, we do whatever we can, but sometimes fast is not the solution at all and you need to wait and you need to test and you need to see, and maybe you're taking decisions like for in 10 years you're going to see real results and real impact, and it's really hard, in this world we live in, to have this kind of thinking.
Speaker 1:And you managed to find those partners in that journey.
Speaker 2:We managed to find them. We still have them on the board and it's a normal VC board with high and lows, because post-COVID was also quite a challenge, I would say. But yes, definitely I can say we're really happy. They're supporting us on the regenerative implementation. They're really supportive on many actions we want to take with the farming world. So yeah, we're quite happy on that.
Speaker 1:And the regen piece because I think you started back in the day with purely focused on organic or farms in transition to organic, which can take up to three years and, of course, are challenging periods for farmers because you might have some yield loss, you might have more costs. I mean, it really depends, of course, on your situation, but when did the word, even regenerative, entered your world? Let's say, when did that start popping up left and right and you thought, okay, we need to investigate and do something with it, or at least engage, or maybe not.
Speaker 2:It's a very good question because for us it's kind of blurry, in the sense that and I need to explain that. Not that because I don't want to give an answer, but maybe if I can give a bit more of context about how we work at crop farming I can answer you better. So that's fine, I'll start with that, because I was talking about our agronomist on the ground at the beginning, like a few questions ago. And these agronomists, it's very interesting because at the beginning they were there to just help out the farmers. Our API and logistic was not so developed, so it was very useful to make sure everything would go well in the harvest and the shipment and farmers would make their own boxes, which is now, as I was explaining before, we do have some picking centers in some areas so that the farmer doesn't have to do that, because it was a huge problem. We had so many farmers that could not join crowd farming because they couldn't make boxes. It sounds stupid, but it's complicated for a farmer to have people to be able to make logistics boxes to prepare everything. So anyway, so these people would really help on the logistics side and then they would, of course, as their agronomist. They would just get to know the farmer, get to know how they cultivate. And as we wanted to help farmers cultivate in a more sustainable way, we were like, okay, we have those farmers that are in organic, but there are definitely many things that they can implement and there are best practices and sometimes they don't have time to discuss between themselves but maybe we can be this partner right. And the same goes for transition to organic. They were also, these people were helping out the farmers in transition to organic. And then they were also promoting and there still are actually we still have them on the ground promoting organic practices to maybe the farmer next door. They're saying who are those people that are buying this fruit from my neighbor? It seems like really cool, he's sending from directly to the end consumer. But how does that work? And so we started to grow our network also because now we have a waiting list.
Speaker 2:But at the beginning was not that easy to get farmers to join the platform through these agronomists and these agronomists starting to learn about practices from other farmers and to share them in their group.
Speaker 2:And step by step we were seeing that some farmers that were implementing some techniques were getting more resilient, had better results, were seeing more biodiversity on their farms, like many things, and it was like an observation, and I think it was starting end of 2020, 2021, beginning on 2022, I guess when we really started to associate that to regenerative Mainly also because from the US it was being discussed more and more.
Speaker 2:It started to arrive in Europe and that's why I'm saying it was not like one day we decided, okay, it has been more like and we're like, oh, but that's a bit what some farmers are doing in their premises and that we're trying to promote. So it has a name and maybe with this name, it can be easier to explain to them why it's important. And that's how we started the official program, which is Transition to Regenerative, which is also supported by our agronomist and with a clear plan with some external partners also, and with a clear plan with some external partners also. And, just to mention it, we still have the transition to organic program that is also working very well and we have farmers that are very ambitious in doing both at the same time. So it's just a question of what would you like? What do you think is best for your farm?
Speaker 1:It's interesting. You sort of started noticing almost practices and results before it had a name, or before it was well defined, or even though it's still not. And for you as a company, like you mentioned resilience, what are other effects you've seen in terms of farmers that are going, let's say, further on the soil focus side of things and the plant health side of things?
Speaker 2:I think resilience is a really big part, like it means a lot, especially in Europe. We've seen the last years have been very complicated, like there is every year there is something. So having a resilient farm is really really something important. I think it's also, in some way, the fact that you're going into more types of culture and that you're growing your business in a different way. Sometimes it's also more stability, even more like trying to, because you're making a plan, you're trying to have a long-term vision and then I guess which is I think it's something very key also it's farmer' happiness.
Speaker 2:I know it sounds like crazy, but usually people that are working on farms if there are farmers there is, many times it's a question also of their family, but it's also because they love being outdoors, they love growing their fruits, they love taking care of their animals or at least that's what we're seeing and usually it's very frustrating for them and we've seen that a lot in transition to organic. When you realize you're destroying your soil and your land to produce, it's like it doesn't make sense, right, and so the moment you start regenerating, you recreate this um, yes, a system that is that makes sense for you as a farmer. Well, of course, you're happier with your work, so that's also a good, which I think is a very important consequence that sometimes we don't even think of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and especially in a context where, let's say, the age of the average farmer I think the age of the average farmer working with crowd farming is much lower, but it's an assumption, but it's very high in Europe. And a lot of them don't have a follow-up, they don't have the next generation to step in, because many have seen the hardship they have gone through and the uncertainty and struggles. And why would you if you can have an easier life in somewhere else, which is almost always easier than running a farm? Not to say that we should always pity, et cetera, et cetera. But there is a huge issue with transition of land and transitional farms over the next decades, as many need to retire or will retire, and the question is who's going to take over? Is it going to be industrial mega farms or is it going to be neighbors or the next generation? That might be the same family, but at least if they have a future, like they have in this case with crowd farming, they're much more likely to continue to farm.
Speaker 2:Well, we hope so. That's something that's really worrying us too, this problem, and we hope so, unfortunately, I think we try to do our best. We don't have all the answers, but it's true that for us it's very important to give people like for me. It's always very sad to meet farmers and when they tell you oh, you know, I really hope my son or my daughter won't be a farmer because it's too hard or it doesn't make sense or it's not worth it. It's always so. Let's hope we can change that in a way as a society.
Speaker 1:I think have you seen that effect? Like farmers, you work with that. The next generation is stepping in, or the next generation is working with you and the parents maybe didn't. Or expanding, like one of your founders did like, to the success of the, that you enable that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:We've seen what's for sure. We've seen farmers growing their farms which I wouldn't expect, like wow, I was almost thinking of, maybe I should change job. And then it's true. But I don't want to say it's a generational thing only, because it's not always like. I don't want to say that older farmers are not open-minded to new cultivation techniques, even if it's true that younger are more, let's say, usually are easier and a bit more eager to change.
Speaker 2:So we've seen, for example, cases where we go and meet the farmers and it's actually they're managing it as a family, which is mostly how it happens, and it's the son that called us or the daughter, and the parents are there and we're discussing and the son or the daughter is really excited about crop farming and maybe excited about transition to organic or to regenerative, and the parents are like we can see they're like no, no way, you're not going to do that, it doesn't make any sense, please. So it's really funny, please. So it's it's really funny. And we've had cases where actually the the son and the daughter ended up in crop farming and the parents in the end, step by step, are seeing why they're doing that and other cases where definitely we didn't make it, but it's, yes, definitely. You can see that there are some discussions and what is the future of their farm? How do they want to to evolve? It's?
Speaker 1:it's very important and has it been like a conscious decision to not only work with farmers in Spain, like it could have been, and maybe Portugal? It could have been quite an easy route, okay, from Spain to Germany, and that's what we focus on, but you have actually farmers in eight different countries. Like, how did that come about? And that must make your logistics a bit more challenging.
Speaker 2:So just to say, we have eight countries, but we really have four main countries which helps a bit, so it's a bit less complicated which are Spain, italy, france and Germany, where we have farmers. So the idea has been to offer products from farmers that were motivated, and what happened is a bit we started in Spain, which was the easiest part, I would say, because we had contacts and everything, but then, of course, as we grew and we had met some farmers at fairs or anything, and we would have many customers from Germany thing, and we would have many customers from Germany as, of course, because customers from Gonzalo and Gabriel's Narajas del Carmen would come to crowd farming to get other products they wouldn't get on that on on narajasdelcarmencom, and so these German people would say, oh, but I have a great farmer next door, what? So? We started to have German farmers and then Italian farmers we just happened to meet one and then you start growing in one area and so people hear about you and French customers was a bit the same, like they were growing, and so in the end they were saying but I have very interesting French farmers next door.
Speaker 2:So it was more than a very planned growth. It was okay. There are needs and people are actually willing to join crop farming in this area, so we'll go. Then, of course, it's true that it's very interesting to have various farmers around, like not only in Spain, but also in Italy, in terms of sharing best practices. We had, like some very interesting meetings last year between citrus farmers from Italy, sicily and from Valencia, which are different ways of cultivating, different contexts, but also you can learn so much about it. Oh, you do that. Okay, I try that. So I think it's also give us very interesting opportunities for our programs to have this diversity.
Speaker 1:And a bit of risk. Diversity, of course, risk management?
Speaker 2:definitely, because if you have all your farmers from one area, it's actually something we're still working on, because Europe, even if it's big, remains an area where, well, I don't know, last year there was an olive oil. Well, last harvest, let's say, there was an olive oil issue and it was almost global. I mean, there was nowhere you could find olive oil because it was. Then, of course, you can kind of avoid some plagues if you have farmers from one area to the other, but not always. But it's true that, also in terms of drought, like the situation has been quite hard in the last, in the past two years in southern Europe, the situation has been quite hard in the past two years in Southern Europe and it's been difficult to just say, ah, it's impacting Andalusia, but not Sicily.
Speaker 1:Well, no, that's not true. Unfortunately that leads to an interesting are you prioritizing almost like a regional approach? Of course that's counter the diversification in terms of location, but for for you, it makes a lot of sense to have farmers relatively close to each other with different crops, so you have the distribution center. You can sort of match that. Does it also make sense for the farmers to be in the same area?
Speaker 1:I'm looking for, like we're especially interested with uh this is going to be a long question especially interested with the podcast in what happens if you do regeneration at a watershed or at an area level. Like does it make sense if multiple farmers in the same area are, let's say, on the same journey, instead of having these little islands of amazing farmers but everybody around them is spraying and killing everything they can get? Amazing farmers, but everybody around them is spraying and killing everything they can get, especially in this air, in this, in this uh drought pieces like how do you restore local water cycles? How do you, which you meet, need more than one farm? Like you're not gonna have enough body or not enough numbers if you only have one farm that is doing amazingly in this tiny town outside valencia. No, you need probably a a bit of um concentration like Are you looking at that at all? Where do we have enough mass of hectares that we can actually start doing something more on a regional level?
Speaker 2:Yes, so we are. But it's more like what we're doing right now is really like it's a two-step thing. Like it's a two-step thing. So the first step is, if we do have a farm that is going into organic, regenerative practices, and it's a success story, it's great for us, even if it's one farm, because it's something that's demonstrating for everyone that it works and that it can bring something and upside. So for us it's very important. We call that we have some in various areas that have been like pioneers and we call them internally the lighthouses farm, because it's really like how we can show what can be happening when you really go on this journey.
Speaker 2:But then it's true that what we've seen is mainly for regenerative, because organic is. I mean, the rules are really clear, so you need to apply that and that's it Regenerative and what's wonderful about it. But what's so complicated about it? It's really context-based. So of course, it's not the same to have regenerative farmers in Northern Germany than in Andalusia, and that's where, indeed, regional can really help. For example, we've seen some farmers. We have a group of farmers tropical farms in southern Spain, in Andalusia. We started the program with them and we saw that they were not really convinced by the experts we brought in and what they were being taught or teached, I don't know, I never know. Sorry, it was a bit frustrating. There was some skepticism, I never know, sorry, and he was a bit frustrating.
Speaker 2:There was some skepticism, a bit of skepticism, yes definitely, but they were motivated because they were there for the. I mean, if you're a farmer like anyone, if you take a day to get some training at some point, you are interesting. And what we discovered? That it worked much better and that was Christina's team that actually worked on that to bring them together at one of their farms, like one farmer would welcome the others, with the experts but very concrete things, and where they would have this moment of sharing insights. And that made it much more concrete than just one expert telling them about something without seeing it on the real, let's say, tropical farm.
Speaker 2:And so that's why we're trying now to have regional groups. So, for example, we are starting to have a regional group also where we have more farmers. Obviously it's easier. So we're starting to have one in southern Italy, more in Sicily and Calabria, where we also have lots of farmers and they're interested, and we are moving this whenever we can. We're trying to do that. It's true that you have farmers that can perfectly go through the program by themselves and they become lighthouses or just they're really happy with what they're doing, and it also works and it gives the results, but the impact, of course, is going to be limited to one farm for the moment, but there are also pioneers and the people that are going to change, or at least that will be able to change, the mindset of other farmers in this area, maybe in the future.
Speaker 1:And just to follow up on that are you looking at all at different regions and like climate risk in terms of drought and like how, like where you're sourcing from or where you're not sourcing from, or is it really looking at? Okay, we have a great farmer contacting us and we hope let's say that the climate doesn't get so weird in the next 10 years that we cannot source anymore, but for now we're going to work with him or her.
Speaker 2:Okay, right now we're more on the second one, that is to say, we don't have I know some companies because I've discussed this with so many players like trying to think okay, so we're going to go north with our production because in 10-year time this is not going to be viable in this area. Us, it's true that we're offering services to the farmer, but we're not making decisions. It's not our farms.
Speaker 2:So we're not making the decision ourselves of maybe you should go north for this production if you want for it to make sense. Of course, we can help them out with two informations. Which is first one give them some tools to be more resilient and to be prepared for that and tell them OK, what you're seeing is not something like, for example, the drought or extreme weather changes. We're having discussion with the farmers. It's not like it's not going to happen anymore. It's actually going to get worse in a way. So let's see how we can work together. What options do we have to get prepared in a way, so that's for sure. And then the second tool we have is definitely the market.
Speaker 2:We've not discussed much about the consumer yet, but it's very important to have those two aspects, because sometimes we have farmers saying OK, I think my, I don't know, I'm growing this and I think it doesn't make sense on the long run. What should I grow? I've seen people are talking to me. My agronomist told me this Do you think there is a market for that? And at least us, we can tell them. Okay, right now, what we're seeing is that there is a trend for that and maybe help them out on this. So these are the two things, but it's true that we don't have a plan and we're not doing it because it's not our farms.
Speaker 1:We can give ideas, information, but then it's up to them to decide on what to do this is really future thinking that you get to a scale in a region at some point that you touch enough farms, or have a limited but still an influence on farms, that you can start thinking, okay, how do we get enough tree cover to restore certain water cycles? How do we make sure bare ground in this whole area is limited? How do we really work on regeneration at a, at a regional or watershed level? Um, that that which will benefit all farms, ones that are selling through you or ones that are not. Because we see some of those examples now of people starting to say, yeah, but we need to really think a lot bigger in terms of regeneration. And like, how do we get back to summer storms that used to happen in this region every other day? And how do we um, because otherwise we will lead to desertification in many places, even if we have some amazing lighthouse farms around.
Speaker 1:But I I guess that's not in your plan, but I think at some point, with with enough concentration, you get to a size where you can start taking we actually have an influence on local uh, local weather, because we have so many farmers in our in our area that are planting trees, having ground cover differently, et cetera.
Speaker 2:I think it's very true, and one of our objectives is and I don't want it to sound like it's not important, but it's really to create consciousness about this, and that's why we're also working.
Speaker 2:I was talking about experts. We're working with local experts on Ratch narrative in every country and with people that are experts. There is no other way of putting it on some issues, and what we're trying to do also on that is to really have people get to know about it and create, maybe this consciousness at a regional level, which is also at a political level, like it works, it actually gives yields and it's creating a better environment for everyone. So why don't we invest a bit more? And that's the same with the consumers Explain what is regenerative agriculture, why is it important? What does it mean organic regenerative, why is it important for your future? And so you can also put some pressure on your politics on that side. So we really do believe like it's a work in progress, and that the more we have success cases, the more it's easier to convince farmer and the more it's going to be convinced society in general.
Speaker 1:And have you seen that consumer side you mentioned? Absolutely correct, we haven't really covered, like touched that so much. Um, because you ask quite a bit from the consumer. You deliver amazing fruit and amazing taste. But it's it's a different process that I'm going to the supermarket and pick whatever I see. Um, how has the journey been? Because you've had quite a bit of success with that.
Speaker 1:But also I love the sentence that I think is in most farms on on the website like our farm is not a screw factory. Like each one is unique and in appearance and size. But also the communication. I've seen that when we ordered peaches, I think, there was a hail storm which meant that the cherries which was supposed to be in that seasonal box couldn't make it because it was too difficult to separate the ones that were damaged from not like just, but really nicely. Of course we got a really nice amount of fruit. But to see that communication of this is weather, like this happens every day to every farm. You don't see it normally because in the supermarket you only get the very best looking ones, not tasting ones, but you only get the non-damage and you don't see the whole rest of the like. How, how has that been in that transparency of communicating and educating and still delivering a lot of fruit, because people want to be educated but they also want to buy and eat stuff uh, well, I think it's.
Speaker 2:The first thing is to be transparent and, as you were saying, just to tell what's happening, when it's happening and why. And I think people on this are, uh, always, um, like they're understanding, because they're saying, ok, it's real, it's not someone trying to send me whatever they find of this product, it's really from this farm, and that's why there is an issue and that's why I'm not getting them in the end, because it's true, it's honest. So I think in that sense, it's working, getting a lot of time to discuss with our customers, to also give them some advice. We have a blog where we try to explain things about agriculture which are, unfortunately, like you usually don't know about agriculture. I started crop farming and I had no clue about so many things and it's like, because it's not something we we get to to be taught, so it's taught, so it's a bit of a shame. So we do a lot of that and then we're trying to create this sense of community of people.
Speaker 2:And actually, on Regenerative, we just launched a very interesting initiative. We were really happy about it because we launched one person for the soil I don't know if Christina talked about it, but it's every farm that is, in conversion to regenerative. We're going to take 1% from their sales not from the farmer, obviously on our part to be investing in new programs for regenerative, programs for other farms. And so we were thinking, okay, but it's like we're making our own decisions, but maybe you'd like to have decisions from experts, on the one hand, and also from consumers. So we created this committee and we said, okay, we have four votes and the first vote is going to be a community of consumers that are motivated. So we actually send an email with a questionnaire where you could answer and say, okay, I'd like to participate, not like to participate. Some basic information about regenerative agriculture, what is 1% for the soil and everything. And it's been a massive success, to be honest. We have 3,000 people that signed up and, yeah, we're really, really happy.
Speaker 2:And so what we're trying to do like where this community is already proving to be quite exciting, because people are answering, we're sending them over information, they're answering, we're sending them over information, they're answering, asking questions and we really think this is the kind of initiative that also helps, in the end, that you don't have the same mindset afterwards when you go to the supermarket or when you're buying fruit and veggie.
Speaker 2:So, of course, that being said, I don't want to say, oh, people don't care, that they don't receive on D-Day their fruits, or that there are no cherries. That's not true and we're working on that so much and that's why logistic is so important, and I have to say we have a KPI, what we call perfect orders, which are orders that are arriving on time, perfectly, and we've improved so much last year because we really decided we need to be better, because it's important for the farmers in order to for consumers to really believe in this alternative. Otherwise it's not going to work. So so, of course, as any business, we work on that, but I think there's also a part of education slash participating in this which is working and being very useful for people to understand what's happening and have you thought for sure you thought about it.
Speaker 1:But um, to take that to the next logical step or to another logical step, that doesn't mean that it's a better or next one to make them part of the company as well. If you thought about the crowd, I mean it's literally in your name, but as an investor in in crowd farming yes, we did.
Speaker 2:We had had many debates and we're still not clear about it. There's just one thing that for me and it's not very a popular opinion, so I'm sorry if I put it like this, but it was for me a big question mark when we had the question of should we do a crowdfunding, being called crowd farming, that would make so much sense, right, and uh and I think it was, um, because of personal experience, what I've seen around in other startups about evaluation and uh, you know, there was a peak in valuation and so consumers were getting shares or something that was valued so much and two years after, well, it wasn't valued that much and I don't know. Know, I had a feeling like sometimes there was a bit of a question mark Are we using these people?
Speaker 2:in a way, because they're not experts on finance, they're taking a lot of risk, which normally they are professional investors taking those risks, and so that's been, and it's very personal, and it's been one of the reasons for which, right now, we've been thinking about it. Of course, we don't want to do that, but we're like maybe it's not the right place to where we should be, because we would like it's so. In a way, it's so versatile I don't know how to say it that it was. But yeah, we've thought about it. We still haven't done it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I very much agree. I think we've seen a boom and now way less in approaches and especially people throwing money at names they recognize without understanding the valuation or without even understanding the mechanism. We've seen that as well people investing through equity and then asking when do I get the money back? And like not understanding it's not a loan and like that kind of education or that kind of steps are fundamental to even begin to understand. It's nice if you want to support a company you really like but then figure out a way to donate and that's okay, and then you're at least there are no expectations about a return, and but it is interesting if done well.
Speaker 1:We've seen some examples with happy peer, I think, in Ireland and of course, boerschappen we had here. Like, if done well, it can be a very interesting, um, interesting medium, not cheap at all. Like it's a running a campaign, it's it's communication, it's a. It's absolutely not a. It's not like a. You flip a switch and put it on a website and you're and make one video and you're fine. I think many people underestimate it, as well as entrepreneurs that it's definitely not an easy way to raise some capital, but it could be be aligned If done well, it could be very aligned.
Speaker 1:And, in general, what is your? Because you've been in the last years, because crowdfunding has been around for a couple of years, exposed quite a bit to the financial space as well, and a question we like to ask is what is your if we do this in a theater, let's say, in Barcelona or Valencia, or in the financial heart in Madrid or in Paris? I mean, for that matters, what would be your main message to a room of financial-minded people that are investing their own money and other people's money? What would be a seed you would like to plant in their mind?
Speaker 2:Well, the thing we're discussing at the beginning, to really have a long-term view and especially considering the issues this world is facing right now, and there are so many things that we need to solve and unfortunately they're not or at least it's my personal belief. I don't think they're going to be all solved by technology far from that and we're going to need to be patient and to believe in what we're doing on the long term, because otherwise we won't see any results. And I think it's also well, it's like long term, things are not trendy anymore, if I may say so, and it's. It's really sad, because I think that's how you make real change.
Speaker 1:And what would be then one thing let's say they're back like we do this on I don't know Friday evening and they're back at their desk on Monday. What would be one one thing let's say they're back like we do this on I don't know Friday evening and they're back at their desk on Monday. What would be one thing you want them to do like action, apart from taking probably a deep breath and think about seven generations, but what should be something they should do?
Speaker 2:That's a very good question. I guess it would be. I would take my last bored minutes, maybe from that company I went to and I would look at the decision we made and I would say, okay, maybe this one that was a bit far-fetched or a bit more like it was requiring a bit more patience. Maybe in the end we could have given them the opportunity to test.
Speaker 1:I guess that would be a good thing to start a morning, a Monday morning, in a different way and to flip the question what would you do if you would be in charge of a billion, let's say a billion euros to invest? Could be extremely long term, like we don't have time horizons here, but it needs to be put to work and, ideally, at some point, in some shape or form, come back. What would you focus on?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, I would be very humbled because that would be a huge responsibility and I wouldn't want to fail.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's kind of scary and I wouldn't want to fail.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it's kind of scary, I guess, definitely I would try. I really believe that we are able to create business solutions that can solve issues. That's something I really believe in and I think it's very positive. So I will definitely put my capital to work in that sense to try to find those businesses that can solve the many issues whether it's environmental, social that we're having and see how I can scale that with that much money.
Speaker 2:And, of course, what I would do, ask, because I'm talking about long term.
Speaker 2:It seems like, oh yeah, I don't want to give any guarantee or anything, of course, and let's not be stupid, that's also how we work.
Speaker 2:I would ask them, indeed for these projects to have some very clear KPIs so that we can see the evolution, even if it's subtle at the beginning, but that we can see something exactly like as we're doing. I didn't mention it, but for us, what does it mean to me in transition to regenerative, is that you're doing an MRV every year and that we're looking at those criteria biodiversity, water, soil, of course all of this into a perspective, according to a plan that you're making with the experts and the techniques you're trying, and maybe something is not working, but maybe something is really working very well for your farm and see that and so that we can see the evolution. And especially, I think it's important not only for investors to be honest, but also for farmers to say, okay, I'm making those efforts and it's starting to pay off, even if it's very subtle. And it would be the same for my 1 billion euros pound, of course, and we always like to same for my 1 billion euros found, of course.
Speaker 1:And we always like to ask this question, which usually leads to other questions. But if there's, and so you're no longer in charge of your massive investment fund, but you do have a magic power to change one thing overnight, what would that be?
Speaker 2:Is it in regenerative or in general in life? Because I'm gonna give it a different, better flavor conscious, conscious, we've heard uh like it's in general the cap.
Speaker 1:It could be global consciousness. It could be um our animals outside but, it doesn't have to be related to food and like literally, um, if you, if you could change one thing overnight, what would that be?
Speaker 2:I think I will try to uh change, uh, people's mindset, starting with mine, in the sense that to be more open-minded to change, because I've seen in my experiences, uh, that one of the major things that make people do the things the way they do is that they're kind of afraid of change, which is normal and sometimes it's healthy to say, okay, this is not working, I'll try to find a solution and to believe that you can find a solution.
Speaker 2:And many times you have this mindset of, well, it's been here for years, it's been done like this for years, so it must be good. And maybe it's true it's a good solution. Maybe you'll come back to the conclusion that this was the right solution, but at least having this mindset change and this capacity to say, okay, I'll just try something different, just to see if I can improve that part I think we could. I think there are many solutions that would come up in a more easier way in general, and even relationship with people. Just think that people are not like the way you think, but that they can change, and give them this opportunity would be, I think, quite wonderful.
Speaker 1:And in your work at Crowdfarming, where you've seen that as a barrier crowdfunding, where, where you've seen that as a barrier, well, um, it's been.
Speaker 2:Of course it's. It's a barrier, as in any company, because we're all like that, we've been doing this. For example, when you scale, uh, it's like no, but we've always been doing this, like this. Why would we change? Or no, it's not going to work because we tried, but maybe the conditions are different, the products are different. So I mean, sometimes you have this kind of protective approach. And again, I'm starting to talk about myself, because afterwards, sometimes I get out of a meeting afterwards and I say, oh, I wasn't like I should have maybe been more open-minded on that one, or I will rethink about it because they might be right that we need to change that. But the other thing is also with the farmers and not to say again that farmers are close-minded or that they are not need to change that. But the other thing is also with the farmers and not to say again that farmers are closed-minded or that they're not open to change.
Speaker 2:But it's true that usually we're talking about the fact that it's a really hard job to have. It's like non-stop, it's all the time. You take so many risks and you have almost no, well, very little insurance that what you're doing is going to pay off. I think this is also why so many farmers are reluctant to implement tests on their farm or to say, okay, I'm going to do that.
Speaker 2:And especially because there was so much marketing in the 60s 70s about like, wow, use this fertilizer, fantastic pesticide, it's the best. You're going to get so many yields. You're going to be like and never again have you, you will like the results you will have. You will never have seen them otherwise. And so I guess this also is why the new generation is a bit afraid, because when you start having so many issues, you have extreme weather changes and you're like, apart from that, I'm going to take the risk, change the way my father has been cultivating into something that let's see if it works. Well, I guess it's. It's, yes, it's definitely something that is slowing down the change when we could go faster, but then again, it's understandable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how do you get out of that? I think is a big, because you don't want to change too fast and risk, but at the same time, we are in a time where we need a lot of changes Because, yeah, clearly you just have to look out of the window to see that it's not working as we've seen until now or as we've done until now.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's where we always come back to the same. I think we trust people we know or what we see with our eyes, and that's why it's so important to have success stories and people talking about what they're doing, and also to have again supportive in that case. Sometimes for the farmers it's just to say, okay, I'm transitioning to organic, but I feel that I'm supported for this transition because I know there are consumers looking for transition to organic products in crop farming that will value it and so I'll get a better price than conventional, even if it's not yet organic, and so I feel like I have this support so I can make the change. And that's what we're trying to do with Regenerative also to have the farmers learn that it makes sense for their farm because of other farmers and also because they see that there is a movement with the consumer taking in consideration this change.
Speaker 1:And do you see you moving beyond those early adopters? Or like how, how easy it is to to keep creating action, not creating, to keep tapping into extra demand, let's say, because that's what this whole thing leans on is to for people to buy more and for more people to buy.
Speaker 2:So I think we, um, so we don't buy the fruits, like for many, for many, uh, um, let's say, we, we have, uh, most of the time it's a farmer selling directly to the end consumer.
Speaker 2:So, but it's also, like I mean, your question would be, more than for us to buy, for us to make more farmers join and definitely to have more consumers and more farmers join and definitely to have more consumers and, um, I think it's definitely a question of having a good, uh customer experience, also linked to like to demonstrate that what you were saying, which I think is very interesting, like it's different from a supermarket, right, the experience. So you need to make it worth it. So you need to have good product. You need to have, as we were discussing before, like a good delivery experience, because, of course, you're not going to cue the people on the long run if you don't give them that, even if they want to support. But if you give them that, then for them it's going to be maybe a no brainer to say, okay, for crowdfunding, I cannot decide to have the delivery on Tuesday, it will be on Thursday, but it's definitely worth it and that's the. That's the part we're working on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really comes down again to to quality and flavor. And then you're also into communication and you're slightly more willingness to, willing to forgive a day or two or something around it, because you know um, and of course you're it's easier quote unquote because you know um and of course you're it's easier quote unquote because you're so much fresher compared to the normal supply lines, like. Freshness means in many cases, flavor, um, and and also picking the right time picking and not, uh, when fruits are not ripe yet, etc. But it also means, yeah, there's a, a speed thing there. Of course that helps or doesn't help.
Speaker 2:And it's true that it's not always easy, but it can be, because it's a change in consumption, because we have so many people for example, mango season from Europe it's really short and so we are going to have people in January with, of course because you don't know that, because no one knows all the harvest season from all products in Europe, asking us for mangoes in January. And of course you could say, oh, I could ship you mangoes from overseas and then I would answer that demand, but we're not doing it because we think it doesn't make sense. But it's hard to answer to a consumer well, wait for September, you'll get some mangoes by that time. So it's also a change in the in the way we we well, in the way the consumer does grocery shopping, in a way yeah, and that's my question like how, how do you feel that could be growing?
Speaker 1:like, have you reached that max group of people that are willing to be a bit more flexible? Do you see that group growing or do you see, within that group, people buying more as well? Like, what's your feeling on the consumer side?
Speaker 2:I think and sorry because I didn't understand why your question. Now I see your point. I definitely think this group can still be growing as long as we diversify in terms of offer, which is what we've been doing. Just to give you an idea, you were talking about 350,000 customers.
Speaker 1:We're really happy we reached 400,000 like a few weeks ago, so it's growing.
Speaker 2:It's definitely linked to new geos because we have countries where we're stronger than others, so you can still definitely grow in Europe in other countries. But then there is also and definitely a point, that is, as I was saying, diversifying. The offer, which is the seasonal box you were talking about, which are different fruits every month, is something we launched last year. Now, thanks to our picking centers, we're able to make mixed boxes, which is very different from at the beginning. We started crowd farming. It was only from the farmer's premises, so you would get if the farmer had two products, maybe you would get a mixed box, but otherwise it would be one product. So it's of course it's not the same to receive 10 kilos oranges than five kilo oranges and five kilo maybe avocado, which is definitely a bit more interesting for a family in Europe because maybe you want to eat a bit of the two.
Speaker 2:We started what we call custom boxes, which is you make your own box so you can do your grocery shopping with what we have. It's mainly fruit and veggie and a bit of everything that is rice, pasta, cheese, olive oil, but it's still like you can do your shopping like this, and so we're trying to develop these new options which help out in the management. We have a subscription system now, because before you needed to go to the website. And if you want I don't know you know you're going to eat five kilos oranges every two weeks, which would be very normal. Even for one week for a family would be normal. Maybe you want to receive them every week. Before we didn't have the option on the website so you would have to connect every time and make the order. Even if it's a one-click order, it's long. Now you can say okay, during the orange season in Europe, I want to receive every two weeks oranges. So all of that, I think, is helping out in getting to reach more customers in a different way.
Speaker 1:And that's most. I mean. That's partly distribution and and part, of course, a big piece, but also a lot of a lot of technology and software to make that easy?
Speaker 1:definitely, yeah, no, I can imagine the, the logistics behind it, logistics like physical logistics and and the bits and bytes to to make that work. And and as a final question, where, like we love to ask this question inspired by John Kempf, what do you believe to be true about regenerative agriculture that others don't believe to be true? Where are you contrarian? When it comes to regen, food and ag?
Speaker 2:I think, and I hope to be right. I think it's on the question on whether or not we can feed the world with organic, regenerative and if the yields that you get from those production are sufficient. I think that it's to me it doesn't make sense to be saying that, oh no, it's really nice to have organic and regenerative. It's only for the happy few, because for the rest of the world we're going to have to eat. It's only for the happy few because for the rest of the world we're going to have to eat, like out of conventional agriculture.
Speaker 2:I think if we're destroying something, we're not going to survive, and I think part of the problems we have is also because of what we're doing destroying the soils and everything. We made a very interesting research about nutrients and regenerative agriculture and I mean it's fascinating to just understand that we're just not receiving the nutrients we used to because we're destroying the soil. So of course, I do believe that definitely we can survive and make the planet live on organic, regenerative agriculture, and I think it's not very popular, but that's what we believe in.
Speaker 1:And I think it's not very popular, but that's what we believe in and I think it's a perfect way. I don't think I mean in terms of popular within this audience. I think there's debate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe this audience is very much.
Speaker 1:What type of organic and how? Like we've seen many different types, but I think the feeding the world argument and narrative is very strong, let's say, using agroecology principles in this audience, but of course it depends on the audience you share. It's interesting how that narrative is like oh, you're in favor of organic and regenerative, etc. So you want to starve X, y, z. It's such an interesting hammer that people then immediately take somehow and that how did? How strong? And even if you look at the data, it shows exactly the opposite.
Speaker 1:Like if you could look at good production data doesn't mean there is not the yield gaps, doesn't mean that um regen organic in in row cropping is easy at all. I'm not saying any of that, but it's definitely possible. And let alone if we look at food waste, let alone if we any of that. But it's definitely possible. And let alone if we look at food waste, let alone if we look at nutrients. But it's definitely possible to produce significant amounts um using very different principles. But the narrative is very strong. Like I get that question constantly from investors okay, okay, great, great, um, how we're going to feed the world. Like, yeah, the data suggests that we can and we have been, and it's just very, but somehow the agrochemical industry has been really good at framing a narrative of we're all gonna starve if we get off a lot of inputs. Anyway, I want to be conscious of your time and let you go to your next appointment, because you have a lot of logistics to figure out and farmers to deal with.
Speaker 1:Thank, you so much for for joining us here and unpacking a piece of logistics to figure out and farmers to deal with. So thank you so much for joining us here and unpacking a piece of the story of crowd farming. I'm very much looking forward to keep following you and also be part on the consumer side and be a small part of the 400,000.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you very much, it was really fascinating.
Speaker 1:So thank you for the exchange dot com forward slash posts. If you liked this episode, why not share it with a friend or give us a rating on Apple Podcasts? That really helps. Thanks again and see you next time.
