Soil Builders, 40M for carbon farming in AU and transitioning a 1000a farm using regenerative approaches

A check in interview with Lachy Ritchie, co founder of Agtalent and Carbon Farming Foundation who is getting ready to invest 40M in carbon farming. Plus Tyler and Tim Nuss of The Modern Acre, who are transitioning their 1000 acres row crop vegetable farm using regenerative approaches.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:01

Welcome to Soil Builders, a series where we follow who is building soils at scale. This is an experiment, so please share any feedback. Why this show Soil Builders? I believe that most change in regenerative agriculture and food will come from and is coming from entrepreneurs building ways to regenerate soil at scale. I call these Soil Builders. Soil Builders are entrepreneurial farmers, ag tech companies, investment funds, food startups, new seed cooperatives, teams within food companies, robot startups, investment vehicles, etc, etc, etc. All regenerating soil beyond their own farm gate and with more than their own money. This series allows the community of the podcast, which is you, full of funders, investors and fellow soil builders to follow their progress, their challenges and their breakthroughs. I hope you enjoy it and please reach out with any comments, feedback and ideas. Today we check in with Lechi Ritchie, co-founder of AgTalent and the Carbon Farming Foundation, who's getting ready to spend 40 million to kickstart carbon farming in Australia. And we're checking in with Tyler and Tim Nuss, who are transitioning their 1,000 acres row crop vegetable farm in California to regenerative approaches. But first up, Lechi. Hi, Lechi. Long time no see. Lots has happened. Could you give us a short update on what has been happening over at AgTalent since we last talked in November 19? And what is the Carbon Farming Foundation?

SPEAKER_02: 1:23

Thanks, Koen. Yeah, it has been a huge year for our team. So I'll keep it short and start in a chronological order for you. Last time we spoke, AgTalent was very squarely focused around jobs and training and recruitment in the regenerative agriculture niche. What we really pretty quickly was that regenerative ag as an industry is still obviously a very small global niche and that jobs and training alone wasn't going to be a big enough market segment for us as a business. So not too long after we spoke in November last year, we pivoted slightly and we expanded to become regenfarming.news. And we've started curating global news on regenerative agriculture. So we basically hunt the world every day. for the best news in industry information that people need to know and have started curating, summarising and broadcasting that out. We've also started creating original content. We do pharma interviews and a range of other content pieces, just really trying to spread knowledge about regenerative ag and become, I guess, that central focal point for people who are interested in getting started on the regenerative ag journey. We also have a business directory where businesses involved in regenerative agriculture can list themselves, promote themselves. And the other component is a global library of resources. So we have a searchable... resource base of podcasts, videos, academic reports, studies, just all this kind of information that people might be looking for in regenerative ag. So we pivoted to this, I guess, broader regenerative farming central platform for the world. And it's been really successful. Traffic has boosted massively. I mean, obviously, everyone experienced the challenges around COVID. And that was obviously a huge impact on our business. It wasn't a lot of people willing to spend money on advertising at the time. So, I mean, we've been able to ride through that pretty well just because as a small startup, the costs are low. So, we're riding along pretty well through that. And what we've experienced is, I guess, a huge boom towards the agricultural community moving online. We've had a lot of agronomists in particular who previously spent a lot of time traveling interstate or even internationally to deliver services. And now they're all, same goes for training providers. Now they're all scrambling to be online. So we've had a lot of interest in them. And one of the new features that we're building on Region Farming News is online coaching. So allowing agronomists to basically coach people without having to travel, either in a group setting, which the idea would be you might have a small group of, say, 10 people with one agronomist coach, which brings the cost down for everyone. And of course, also doing one-on-one coaching online. Now, none of this will ever replace face-to-face. We all know that. But the idea is that it might augment and support face-to-face. So yeah, so we've had big changes and things are all tracking along really well. But I guess the biggest piece of news is that our business has been acquired by a newly established carbon farming foundation. So basically, Carbon Farming Foundation was started off the back of a very generous philanthropic pledge from a gentleman named Norman Patter and his family to contribute$40 million over 10 years. to kickstart, or I guess boost, the carbon farming industry within Australia. So the aims of the foundation are twofold. It's to support farmers to reduce their carbon footprints, because as we know, agriculture is one of the largest emitting industries as a whole. So one side of it is this emission reduction focus, and then the other side of the foundation is focusing on carbon sequestration through generating carbon credit units. either through revegetation or soil carbon, is the main initial two focus methods. And, I mean, really, the foundation is newly formed, October 2020, and I'll be heading up the foundation and basically the Region Farming News team will all fold into the foundation and keep operating as Region Farming News. Now, the foundation is a not-for-profit foundation. So it just basically means that our business is now effectively fully owned by a not-for-profit. It'll still run as a for-profit business, but all proceeds or profit basically folds into the not-for-profit and its broader mission. Yeah, so it's big news for us.

SPEAKER_03: 6:08

So why did you decide to fold Act Talent and Region Farming News into the Carbon Foundation instead of simply, between brackets, raising capital for Act Talent and Region Farming News and continuing to scale and grow that business?

SPEAKER_02: 6:20

Yeah, it's a really good question. The main decision for us to fold into the Carbon Farming Foundation, and I guess as founders of Regent Farming News, we had put a lot of heart and soul over many years into a startup unpaid as everyone does. And I guess you're doing that in the hope that one day there might be an equity position for you, obviously. But for us, the main motivator to merge with the Carbon Farming Foundation and give up all of our shareholdings It really came down to impact. We obviously started Regen Farming News to try and support the growth of regenerative agriculture as a whole. That was firmly a mission-oriented startup. And I guess when the opportunity comes along to dedicate a$40 million philanthropic contribution to the thing you care most about in the world, it's pretty hard to walk away from that opportunity. So whilst Regen Farming News would have kept chugging along as a startup and you know it was growing nicely slowly but steadily and was looking really positive i think yeah the main thing for us was that with 40 million dollars behind us we can really boost the impact of what region farming news as a platform could do and it also means that region farming news now becomes a piece of a bigger puzzle that we can tackle with the broader carbon farming foundation so the foundation strategy is still getting better down but it's got some pretty exciting projects on the horizon. We are going to look at, for example, supporting a greenhouse gas measurement tool. So there are a number of those that are on the market in different parts of the world, but we will help to see something commercialised in Australia that allows farmers to measure their greenhouse gas footprint. And we think that can be huge to help with behaviour change and capacity building for farmers to help change the way they're managing the land, to reduce emissions in the first instance. Now, longer term, that could obviously also feed into supporting carbon farming projects by giving the tools expanded to be able to measure soil carbon changes. So there's a lot going on. So that's one piece of the puzzle. The other thing that we're going to be looking at is investing in large-scale commercial demonstrations of carbon farming done in a holistic, mosaic approach. One of the things we're trying to avoid with carbon farming as an industry is the tendency to buy big blocks of farmland and plant a whole lot to trees and effectively take out large areas from agricultural production. We don't see that as the future of carbon farming. We see the future of carbon farming being a more mosaic type approach where carbon farming components, be those tree carbon or soil carbon, are integrated in a patchwork in and around per And the other component is that we think that, especially currently with the carbon credit price in Australia, is that a carbon credit payment alone is not enough of an incentive for a farmer to change land use on part of their land. So we'll be looking at how do you layer up the different values for a farmer, be that can you get them a higher price for their food? Can you get them green finance to reduce the cost of debt? And then can you get them certified carbon neutral, for example? And then the carbon credit payment. And then is there a possibility for other market payments for ecosystem services more broadly? So what we'll basically be doing is investing in large scale pilot projects around the country where we try and develop out and prove these models. And then we will open source all of our lessons from a financial perspective to, oh, it's really hard to get seedlings to plant trees. So we'll look at what's going on in the industry as a whole and identify the major bottlenecks, share these problems, and then we'll call for people to come up with solutions to some of these bottlenecks in the carbon farming value chain. And then we may invest in those or launch other projects and initiatives. So the strategy is still unfolding, but that gives you a little bit of a taste of what the foundation will do with its generous endowment.

SPEAKER_03: 10:50

And how can listeners of the podcast help?

SPEAKER_02: 10:52

Yeah, we would love the help of all the listeners. And at this early stage, really just keeping in touch with what's happening with Regen Farming News is a really good place to start. Moving forward, the broader foundation as a whole will be seeking impact investment from philanthropically minded donors. So as we learn more about carbon farming projects, develop more projects, we will be structuring different types of investment vehicles with varying risk return profiles to suit different impact investment hurdle rates. So as that all develops, we'll certainly be presenting opportunities for investment. As a tax deductible not-for-profit foundation, we will also be seeking donations, philanthropy, blended finance. So anyone who is interested in supporting the growth of the carbon farming industry in Australia, we'd love to hear from you. Please stay in touch. The best way to stay in touch is to subscribe currently to regionfarming.news. We have a wonderful weekly newsletter that presents updates of everything going on in the world of regenerative ag. We scour the internet for the best news, so save you having to do it. And then through that same channel, we will broadcast updates about the Carbon Farming Foundation, various initiatives, projects, opportunities to get involved and support the growth of the Carbon Farm industry as a whole. And look, that will include the opportunity to purchase or forward contract for really high quality carbon credit units. So we will be producing our carbon credit units with additional co-benefits for biodiversity outcomes, our social impact outcomes and other ecological outcomes. So there'll be a lot going on with the foundation as we find our feet. We're brand new, but 2021 will be a big founding year for us. So yeah, please stay in touch.

SPEAKER_03: 13:42

And next up, a deep dive into a farm in transition with Tyler and Tim, who have an amazing podcast as well called The Modern Farmer. We're using the Regenerative Agriculture Continuum Framework of Ethan Soloviev, which we'll link below if you want to know more. Basically, it looks at regen as not a destination, but a continuum from degenerative practices and approaches to regenerative practices and approaches. It doesn't help asking a farmer, are you regenerative? But it helps asking what regenerative approaches are you applying and what would you like to change in the future? And that's exactly what we're doing here. Enjoy. The framework uses different questions divided in characteristics like resilience, economic sustainability, inputs, fuel fertilizer, seeds, animals, etc., and practices slash approaches, tillage, pest, and disease. Could you please describe briefly your farm, where you are, what's your size, what are you farming, and since when you and your family have been connected to this land?

SPEAKER_01: 14:34

Yeah, this is Tim. Thanks for having us, Cone. Our family, Nuss Farms, farms in Northern California in a town called Lodi, which is about an hour and a half east of the San Francisco Bay Area. We farm about 1,000 acres of row crop specialty vegetables. Tyler and I both represent the fifth generation of a farming family. This particular ranch that we're farming, we farm for close to 50 years.

SPEAKER_00: 14:56

Yeah, so this is Tyler. Tim and I grew up in and around agriculture and being on the farm, doing odd jobs growing up. We both actually went away from the farm to develop our careers. Tim studied international business and got into the produce industry, did category management, import and export of produce across the globe, and most recently has been involved in a few ad tech startups and is currently at Appeal Sciences working in supplier relations. My background is in engineering. I got into the tech industry several years ago, working for Apple in supply chain operations, the iPhone, iPad programs. And most recently, I work in an electric car startup called Rivian supporting commercial operations, things like retail, service, digital commerce. But a few years ago, Tim and I became more interested in what was happening back at the family farm, talking to our dad, talking to our oldest brother. And as we started talking and researching about what was happening in the industry, we felt like there wasn't a great place for the next generation to really learn and connect from one another. So we actually started a podcast of our own called The Modern Acre, where we interview people all around the ag industry on and off the farm, entrepreneurs, founders, thought leaders, farmers, and really learn from what they're doing and how they're growing and scaling their businesses. And along that journey, we've been doing the podcast now for almost three years. We've become much more actively involved in our farm's operation and through the podcast really learned more about regenerative agriculture and have been transitioning the farm over the past year or so.

SPEAKER_03: 16:34

Looking at the economic sustainability of the farm, how would you describe your current situation and where would you like to see it in five to 10 years?

SPEAKER_00: 16:43

Well, it's actually an interesting story. The economic sustainability of the farm has been quite a journey. About 15, 20 years ago, our farm really heavily invested in the asparagus industry. It was a huge crop in the Central Valley of California. In fact, one of the adjacent towns, Stockton, had an annual asparagus festival. So it was a huge part of the culture and the economic sustainability of the area. Our dad made a decision to really double down on that crop We invested heavily in infrastructure and equipment. And as we scaled up, we became more vertically integrated grower, packer, shipper. We actually exported to Japan, had a Japanese label. But then a series of events happened to really hurt the business. One was NAFTA, the trade agreement that was agreed to that really shifted production of asparagus in large part to Mexico and South America. And number two was just the ongoing labor challenges that you talk a lot about on the podcast, especially in California. And three was we actually had a series of arson fires that took out our offices on the farm. And so it was just a crazy sequence of events that happened. We were just kids and our dad was managing to figure out how to handle all that. But that really hurt the business. From there, our dad and our oldest brother really had to rethink the business and build it back from scratch with very little working capital to do so. So the path decade or so has been our oldest brother and our dad working their way back to profitability by slowly and incrementally improving the deals, the contracts that we have on the farm. So going from things like corn, which is a lower value crop, to things like garlic and tomatoes and cucumbers. And so that's where we sit today as a profitable operation. But as Tim and I became a little bit more involved and interested in where the direction of the farm was going, our dad was actually involved in an equipment accident on the farm where where he broke every rib in his body. And it was a pretty scary moment for us as a family. He thankfully has made a full recovery, but it was a really big turning point for us as a family because we had to look at each other and decide what we were going to do with the farm and where was the farm going in the next five to 10 years. And so it was around this time where we were learning about regenerative agriculture and how that could be a solution and provide not just a direction, but a vision for the farm. And so we're profitable today, but with our transition to regenerative agriculture, we hoped to not only be more profitable, but also increase revenue with some of the different business approaches we're doing. In

SPEAKER_03: 19:20

terms of ecological sustainability, when you look at the level of degradation in your ecosystem, where do you stand now? Where did you stand when you started farming and where do you plan to go in 10 years?

SPEAKER_01: 19:31

So historically, we've been a conventional farm, farming conventionally for quite a few years. We've always strived to do well by our soil and crop rotations have been a part of our process for a very long time, as well as conservation How is the level of diversity on

SPEAKER_03: 20:12

Yeah, this

SPEAKER_00: 20:15

is Tyler. I think this is actually one area that we've done really well in our existing conventional system. But I think we want to double down and really lean into that because it is something we do well. We're a grower of annual crops. So having a diverse rotational system is something that we're super accustomed to. So take a given field, one year it could be garlic, the next year cucumbers, the next year tomatoes. And we think there's a ton of advantages to that. of that. But in terms of scaling regenerative agriculture, it really hasn't been done at this scale in the 100 to 1,000 acre range of how to figure out how to manage everything from planting to weed control to harvesting to off-season cover crops. And that's really what we're working through right now to figure out how to do that. Another thing that we're incorporating into this annual rotation is the livestock integration that Tim alluded to. So we're part with a company called Pasture Bird. And we're actually doing something that I think is quite unique in the space of incorporating what we call a rotational pasture. So instead of garlic, tomatoes, or cucumbers being in a given field, we're actually dedicating 100 acres of our farm to pasture-raised poultry. So this will incorporate movable coops that will move to a fresh patch of pasture every day and methodically and systematically move through the field and almost supercharge the field in terms of soil health. So that's going to be another piece of this whole puzzle is moving this rotational pasture throughout the farm, supercharging the soil. And then after we rotate out of the pasture, going back in with vegetables, which is pretty exciting, especially as it relates to tracking those changes in soil health and nutrient density over time.

SPEAKER_01: 22:03

Another thing we've also done is really double down on our R&D trials and really try to experiment and explore with what new varieties we can be bringing into commercial production to testing things like radishes, horseradish, different kinds of squash, peppers, a lot of different things that we're trialing at small scale to see how we can work those into our regenerative system in the future.

SPEAKER_03: 22:22

When thinking about resilience on the farm, what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01: 22:27

Definitely starting with the soil. I think our focus on the soil here going forward is going to make us resilient to a couple different factors, reducing our reliance on traditional inputs and weaning ourselves off those over time where it makes sense, and also building up the organic matter in the soil to mitigate against certain weather instances and lack of rainfall where we have moisture capture in the soil that can help us navigate certain events better than without it.

SPEAKER_00: 22:51

Yeah. And another thing, when I think about resilience, I also think about business resilience. And something that Tim and I are really trying to do is optimize the business. So we're focused on improving the sales channels in a few different ways. One is we want to be the premier regenerative ingredient producer of vegetables and So we really want to market ourselves as being able to provide high volume, regeneratively grown ingredients to food brands that are really interested in this space and connecting with consumers and working directly with farms. We're actually doing that today with a few different food brands and talking about how we can work together and navigate the supply chain. And that's really where the focus of the business is going. But also we're exploring a few different other areas of really getting closer to the consumer. So one One area we're doing that is by produce box delivery. So we just started doing that this year, shipping some of our specialty crops. We trialed some row seven seed squash varieties, and we're shipping those through a company called Fruit Stand. So anyone in the US could actually order a Nest Farm squash box directly to their door. So that's super exciting for us and fun to connect directly with people that care about how their food is grown and where their food is coming from. And then lastly, we're all We're also developing a brand focused on regenerative agriculture, a brand that sources their ingredients directly from regenerative farmers. And so we're going to be sharing more about that in the months to come. But we're trialing a product, doing product development today. And we really want to be a leader in the CPG space and be one of the first and biggest regenerative brands out there. So that's another key area of the business. And when we think about resilience, it's about having business Right. And being able to have different revenue streams. And so you're not dependent on that one deal or that one contract. We really want to go in that direction.

SPEAKER_03: 24:52

What waste and pollution does the farm currently produce and how are you planning to work with that in the future?

SPEAKER_01: 24:58

A couple of things come to mind here. First one being fuel. Obviously, the diesel to get the tractors moving around the farm. So I don't see us moving away from that very quickly. But there is some developments happening in this space. We've talked to a number of companies like Monarch Tractor and Z Tractor. small robot company that are all doing some really interesting things in the space where we see a really viable path there in the future to start replacing kind of the traditional tractor with zero emission vehicles. Another thing that I think about when I think about waste is water waste and irrigation on the farm. We do it a number of different ways, but one of the primary ways is flood irrigation, which isn't the most effective. So in the future, looking at ways where we can incorporate overhead sprinklers as well as drip irrigation, obviously those come with a pretty big cost. So that's kind of what we're balancing, weighing the investment to improve the water infrastructure versus the present state. What kind of crops

SPEAKER_03: 25:47

or produce are you currently farming and how do you see that changing over the next years?

SPEAKER_00: 25:51

This is Tyler. Currently, we're growing garlic, tomatoes, cucumbers, sunflowers, wheat, and we're also doing the pastured poultry integration that I talked about. In addition, we're doing the trials of specialty vegetables and unique varieties. And I think what's annual crop system, we have a lot of flexibility with what we can grow and introduce. And so it gets me really excited talking to some of these food brands that I mentioned and learning about their ingredient needs and how we could fill those. So I think in the future, we are definitely open and interested to evolving our rotation and what we put into the ground. And so definitely excited by that prospect. But I can tell you in 2021, we'll probably have an increased number of peppers doing a few different varieties of peppers, which we're excited about.

SPEAKER_01: 26:43

Yeah, I definitely like our ability to iterate quickly year over year and trial and experiment with new things, especially being able to double and sometimes triple crop. Like a lot of these crops that we're looking at, radishes are a 30-day crop, cucumbers are a 60-day crop. So you do have the ability to cycle numerous crops off the same field in a given year and really incorporate that crop rotation and build the soil health.

SPEAKER_03: 27:04

Where do you source your inputs from? International, regional, local, or on the farm?

SPEAKER_01: 27:08

So we primarily source our inputs pretty traditional here in California sourcing from a multinational ag retailer, one of the large guys that has a local regional presence, which obviously offers us a level of service being close and local, being able to get us product when we need it on time and have the distribution and capabilities to do so. That's really a main reason why a lot of farms are still on this model where there's such a level of high service, high touch to facilitate what's happening on the farm. But we are looking in the future of ways that we can incorporate biologicals and not be so reliant on synthetics, obviously. we build our soil, the rates are going to come down, the resilience against pests and weed pressures are going to come down naturally. So we're still looking at that as our North Star, but still in the traditional model as it relates to procuring inputs.

SPEAKER_00: 27:53

Yeah, I think we view it as a balance, right? It's something that needs to happen over time. But something about the traditional model is the PCAs we work with, the retailers we work with aren't incentivized, right, to reduce our inputs over time. That's how they make their money. And so trying to balance that and work with them to reduce our inputs over time is something that we're working through while also like to mention seeing if biologics can help accelerate our transition. We actually had John Kempf on our podcast and one thing he mentioned that he feels is a bit of a unique perspective to regenerative agriculture is that it can happen much faster than many people think by using biologicals. So we're exploring and doing some trials in that area as well.

SPEAKER_03: 28:36

What's the source of the farm fertility? Chemical, plants, compost, human or ecosystemic?

SPEAKER_00: 28:41

So So currently, obviously heavily reliant on chemical inputs and nitrogen to fertilize the soil. But what we're actually doing right now is working with Ray Archuleta of Understanding Ag to really develop custom cover crop mixes that naturally put some of this fertility back in the soil. So what he's done, he's been on our farm, walked the fields, understands what we had in the mixing the cover crop seed accordingly. So he's focused on how can we naturally get some nitrogen back in the soil? How can we naturally increase the organic matter? So that's one area that we're looking at currently.

SPEAKER_03: 29:26

Where does your equipment come from? International, brands, or did you build it yourself?

SPEAKER_01: 29:30

So a majority of our equipment is secondhand where we're typically buying used tractors, used implements just due to the cost of these machines being new. So we really find there's value in buying used equipment. Typically, buying kind of the traditional brand or international brands like Deere and so forth for the tractors. And then as far as implements go, our dad is constantly engineering and fabricating stuff, putting together. We're not building stuff from scratch, but we definitely have a lot of equipment that's been tweaked accordingly to fit our specific system. So we're always on the lookout for different pieces that we can bring in that'll help add value to the ranch. We have a lot of spare parts sitting out, which sometimes gets Tyler's OCD really riled up when he visits the farm because he

SPEAKER_00: 30:11

I know sometimes I get a little stressed out, but another piece of this is additional equipment that we need by transitioning to regenerative. So something that we're looking at right now is a no-till planter and other equipment. So looking on the used market, what we can get. So that's definitely been our approach.

SPEAKER_03: 30:31

What's your tillage approach? High, low, or no tillage?

SPEAKER_00: 30:34

Tillage is a really interesting topic of discussion, especially for vegetable production. Currently, we're doing doing pretty high tillage. And that's something we're really focused and strategizing on how to improve this. I think the first steps are trying to do some trials of some no-till transplanting and no-till seeding of crops directly into the terminated cover crop. So I think that's going to be the first approach. And we have to acquire some equipment to help with that. And we also have to increase the soil health in parallel to be able to handle reduced tillage. So I think it's something that is a really big question mark, but we have a few strategies and hopefully equipment to help assist with that and really reduce it over time.

SPEAKER_01: 31:21

Yeah, we really see us making an investment in the soil through these practices and a little bit of tillage I think is going to be okay in the broad scheme of things as long as we're doing cover crops and working in the right areas. Ray Archuleta shared the same sentiment where he said like you can do a little bit of tillage and take a credit out of the bank, but we got to make sure we're putting more into it.

SPEAKER_03: 31:39

With the integration of animals on the farm this year, What are you going to be focusing on in terms of management?

SPEAKER_00: 31:46

Yeah, this is Tyler. We talked about this a little bit earlier, but this is really key for us. There's not a lot of farmers, especially vegetable farmers, that are focused on regenerative. And there's definitely very few that are focused on vegetables and on integrating livestock. And so we've really decided to take a leap and jump into this space and figure it out. And so by partnering with Pasture Bird, we're really bringing in livestock integration And in terms of guiding frameworks, are you looking

SPEAKER_03: 32:41

conventional, where you come from, obviously, agroecology, permaculture, or something else.

SPEAKER_00: 32:47

Yeah, really for us, the goal of Nest Farms is to be the flagship farm for scaling regenerative agriculture, specifically focused on vegetables. And so I think for us, we just want a balanced approach. And we recognize that we don't have all the answers and that there's going to be challenges along the way. But we just want to really dig in and try a lot of different things and see what works and see what doesn't. You know, one thing that comes to mind is certifications, right? There's regenerative organic, there's glyphosate free, there's a lot of these different certifications and labels and procedures that are out there. And we're trying to just take a balanced approach and recognize that consumers are really going to drive a lot of this. And we just want to be well positioned no matter what happens. So even with nutrient density, I think we're pretty bullish on nutrient density, but I don't think it's quite there from a consumer standpoint. But we want to be prepared to be able to quantify our crops and know the nutrient density. So In addition, I think we're really focused on innovating the business. Like I mentioned, we want to be a regenerative ingredient producer. We want to develop relationship directly with consumers. And we also want to build a brand focused on regenerative.

SPEAKER_01: 33:55

We're really early on in this journey, and we're excited about continuing to innovate. We talked to a lot of interesting people on the podcast and are always getting new ideas. So the amount of progress we've made in 2020, I'm really excited about what 2021 has in store for us. I really appreciate you having us on, Cohen. And if anyone wants to reach out to Tyler and I for Feel free.

SPEAKER_03: 34:13

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