111 Bart van der Zande on building the world's first regenerative startup studio

What exactly is a startup studio and why is it fundamental for the future of region food and agriculture? A conversation with Bart van der Zande, co-founder of Fresh Ventures.

-----------------------------------------------------

Join our Gumroad community, discover the tiers and benefits on www.gumroad.com/investinginregenag.
Other ways to support our work:
- Share the podcast
- Give a 5-star rating
- Or buy us a coffee… or a meal!
www.Ko-fi.com/regenerativeagriculture.

------------------------------------------------------
Fresh Ventures is a startup studio focused on region agriculture and food companies based in Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Together with Bart, we discuss the startup studio model and how it can generate more successful and surviving companies that focus on the regeneration of soils at scale.

More about this episode on https://investinginregenerativeagriculture.com/bart-van-der-zande.

Find our video course here:
https://investinginregenerativeagriculture.com/course/

-----------------------------------------------------------

For feedback, ideas, suggestions please contact us through Twitter @KoenvanSeijen, or get in touch through the website www.investinginregenerativeagriculture.com.

Join our newsletter on www.eepurl.com/cxU33P.

The above references an opinion and is for information and educational purposes only. It is not intended to be investment advice. Seek a duly licensed professional for investment advice.

Support the show (https://www.gumroad.com/investinginregenag)

LinkedIn

Contact page website

Find out more about our Generation-Re investment syndicate:
https://gen-re.land/

Thank you to our Field Builders Circle for supporting us. Learn more here

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

What is a startup studio and why are they fundamental for the future of Region Food and Ag? I believe we need a lot more companies working on regenerating soils at scale. So why don't we see them? And why don't we see many reaching the scale and impact we need? How can we help people who have experience in building things, food companies, funds, organizations, experience with raising money, building teams to become active in soil? That's where the startup studio model comes in, to create many more successful surviving companies to regenerate soils at scale. Welcome to another episode of In March last year, we launched our membership community to make it easy for fans to support our work. And so many of you have joined as a member. We've launched different types of benefits, exclusive content, Q&A webinars with former guests, ask me anything sessions, plus so much more to come in the future. For more information on the different tiers, benefits and how to become a member, check gumroad.com slash investing region. an egg or find the link below. Thank you. Welcome to another episode today with Bart van der Zande, co-founder of Fresh Ventures, the startup studio focused on region ag and food companies based in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, and a good friend. And I'm an advisor to the studio. So I'm very, very happy to, I think after two or three years of discussions to finally have you on the pod and to dive deeper into what is a startup studio and why is it so extremely necessary in our space. But to start with a personal question, why are you focusing on soil?

SPEAKER_01: 2:04

Why am I focusing on soil? Yeah, maybe move back a little. bit on why i got where we are now before i get into soil and the role it plays i have a background in marketing and media and business actually so not at all in soil and actually before i handed in my thesis i joined an entrepreneur i joined a company which i ended up co-owning and i got into this entrepreneurial ecosystems by being a startup myself and trying to find out how it works and fundraising and building an organization and all that stuff. But we pivoted our own model towards our clients being co-working spaces, innovation, ecosystems, startup ecosystems. And in that period, that was growing quite fast as well. So I got to learn about the questions that were going on there from the two sides, actually. On the one side, we were a startup and we were invited and supported by these infrastructures. And by the other side, we were also trying to deliver value to organizations that were doing that and in that period i was learning a lot and got very much interested in how and why startups fail why they succeed how can we do better for our personal use obviously but also in a more general sense how can we build strong startup ecosystems and healthy businesses and i've always been interested, let's say, in sustainability in a more general sense. I think you and me, we met when I was a host at the Impact Hub. very long time ago. Some years, yeah. Yes, some years. But it was always sort of an interest of this is an area where a lot of cool stuff happened as well and also as the direction to go. But while we were building these communities, these entrepreneurial communities, and while we're building our own company, I switched to very much an intrinsic drive in sort of the mission to bring the economy within planetary boundaries. And it became very urgent to me until a certain day I I walked into one of the ecosystems that we built then co-working space that we were in and looked around and I saw all these entrepreneurial friends as well and they're working very hard and thinking about conversations about scaling and stuff like that but it really daunted It was a daunting thought for me. Like, what are we building, actually? What are we scaling? What is all this talent doing, actually, if we maybe even better do nothing if we're not working in the right direction? And then what is the right direction, obviously? So that's when I founded Impact Express, an organization three years ago with my partner, Huub Dekkers, and where my interest was really born from the idea of how can I get, well, my personal talent and time, but from all this entrepreneurial talent and this way of working on building healthy organizations into the right direction. Huub came from a different direction and he's an anthropologist and works with, well, company culture, you could say, and always interested in how to organize togetherness as well. And he was already working a lot in also helping companies grow the, for example, business models that help grow biodiversity. And so he was more on the subject already and when I met him he had almost a similar ambition but coming from a totally different side because he saw that there were great ideas or pilot cases or reports written and ideas on how to move forward but then solutions but all on a small scale let's say you can from the scale yeah from a small scale that's one thing but also maybe well wouldn't say the wrong people but then yeah maybe the wrong people working on it innovation managers or corporate responsibility, stuff

SPEAKER_00: 6:03

like that. And when you say wrong, you mean that the ones that are not going to build a larger organization to actually bring it to the impact it could have. Like it's, it's very likely, or it was very likely it was going to stop. Like it wasn't going to reach a huge acreage or a huge amount of insects or a huge amount of food that it would stop. Like it was a natural limit.

SPEAKER_01: 6:24

Yeah. That, but also even before that taking the risk or having the opportunity actually start the company

SPEAKER_00: 6:31

most of the time it wouldn't start it

SPEAKER_01: 6:32

wouldn't even start like the whole dynamic would be more based around on a project level and if the money runs out for this certain project or research or whatever lacking the creativity to actually go look for a market or build a team or seeing that as an opportunity maybe outside the organization that are already involved sometimes it's hard to have a change or create a change within an existing organization it's only that far that you can go. You have to convince a lot of people, but then the lack of entrepreneurship to get this off the ground. And in that period, obviously you and I had conversations as well. You introduced me also to soil and regenerative agriculture, but also to the impact investment side and sharing stories of impact investment being, well, still niche, but a growing pot of money, but also a lack of investable teams. So this is very much what we've been doing the past three years. trying to find ways to enable people to start using their talent and time to build organizations or become part of organizations that work towards an economy within planetary boundaries and

SPEAKER_00: 7:42

moving closer to soil. It's funny that you say investable teams, not investable entrepreneurs. Why is that?

SPEAKER_01: 7:48

You mean individuals instead of teams?

SPEAKER_00: 7:50

I am sure it's delivered, but it's the... I mean, I only asked one question, but we're going to sideway many times, I think, in this conversation. So let's start here.

SPEAKER_01: 7:58

Yeah, no problem. Now, obviously, I think many investors also look for teams instead of single founder organizations, mainly because of the success rate. I think you need different skills, different types of knowledge, and that is quite impossible to find in one person. So building complementary teams is, I think, a very important part of success of young companies or companies in general. And I think also that teams is such a big part of the failure or the success of a startup. But that's the reason why I said investable teams probably are not enterprises, so to say. Did that answer your question, Koen?

SPEAKER_00: 8:41

Absolutely, yeah. And I think we're going to look at that. We'll get into it a little bit more. Yeah, in the Startup Studio model, because you said these three years I've been looking at ways for startups to be more successful or for more startups to be successful. And you stumbled upon or you found this model that has been used in many other sectors actually, but for maybe many people on the podcast is new. Like what is a startup studio? It's not a TV studio. What should I imagine when somebody says a venture builder or startup studio? What do you answer when people ask that? Because I think you get that question all the time, but I'm obviously curious to bring it to this audience.

SPEAKER_01: 10:04

Yeah, for me, a startup studio is an organization that use a repeatable process to build new ventures from scratch. There are different ways and different shapes and forms of the startup studio. But the main thing is that it's really looking at what can go wrong, so to say, and what are the reasons startups succeed or fail within, for example, a specific niche that you're working in and how can we, from the beginning on, organize on decreasing the risk and do it in a repeatable way. So I think the average of the startup studios lies around almost four ventures a year created So it's a very early stage. It's the beginning of the pipeline. So if you accelerate the model, for example, way more. Well, a lot of people know that.

SPEAKER_00: 10:56

Meaning that you come with a company that needs to be sped up. But in this case, it's really starting from scratch. It's starting from

SPEAKER_01: 11:04

scratch and it's coming from different angles, I think. So you have also investors that started working, for example, with great teams first. You have programs like, for example, you have Entrepreneur First. in the UK and Antler. Both of them are actually international that really only focus on building great teams and then trusting that they will build good stuff. So co-founder matching being a big part. Some studios do a lot of it in-house.

SPEAKER_00: 11:30

So basically you're saying that they start with a team that doesn't have a concrete company idea or focus yet. Basically, like you said, trusting that they will find a great team finds a great company.

SPEAKER_01: 11:43

Yeah, yeah. Some studios studios start with developing and validating ideas themselves because that's probably what they're good at and then they attract a founder or a founding team and work towards a spin out or an exit but you can also that's what entrepreneur first and handler for example are doing are really only focusing on the co-founder matching and trusting that if you have a good team and you bring them together they will build good stuff as well i think that's also a big challenge. Also, what we found in the conversations we've had, like finding a good co-founder and finding the first people you build with is very hard. That's part of the key as well, I think, in helping that, especially if you talk about, if we go to, for example, regenerative or the food system, maybe I think there's quite a big gap between people that actually know what needs to happen or have long-term experience within the food system. And on the other side, people that that have experience in building organizations or commercializing solutions or finding working business cases, that's quite a big gap now, I think. It's hard for these people to meet. So on the one side, these, well, let's say entrepreneurial people, they have difficulties and probably those are people that write you as well because they start listening to the podcast to learn more about the general agriculture, but it's a long learning curve. So how do you meet a co-founder that is good at that? And on the other side, you see that as well. So doing the co-founder matching is something that can... already add value.

SPEAKER_00: 13:12

Absolutely. And I see it a lot, actually, people reaching out that are not from the food and ag space. They don't have a farming background and they get enthusiastic. They get hooked on soil, let's say, or they get hooked on ocean regeneration and they use the podcast as education, which is amazing because it's one of the reasons why we share them to take you on the journey with us as we are learning. But then the next step is, okay, what am I going to build? What am I going to join? How can I be professionally involved in this space and not just as a consumer or as a client or as an investor? How can I be entrepreneurial in this space as well? And what would you, because you're funded or you're fundraising at the moment, but you're also partly funded, like this is going to happen. You're going to do the startup studio is happening. What are the next steps or what are the steps for somebody to imagine what a process of a startup studio, in this case, focus on region Food and Ag looks like?

SPEAKER_01: 14:04

Yeah. So for us, I think to pedal back a little bit, what you said is like finding this space to start and how to start. I think that's what we are trying to solve. So to build this bridge with the startup studio that we have now. So it's called Fresh Ventures. And what we're trying to do is build a process for people to get involved. If I would get a little bit more specific, what we're going to do this year, sourcing around 30 people. So a group of people from Europe and get them to Rotterdam, multidisciplinary group. So a combination of people that have experience in the food system or CTO, let's say, A lot of knowledge, for example, on soil or specific area within the food system and more people that can help build these organizations. That's one thing. And on the other side is what we call the opportunity to diligence. And it's also, if you look at the studio model, like doing your own pre-work, so to say, and developing what do we actually need to build? So I think that's also a differentiation or sort of a translation of the current studio model is that it's not just about building working companies that are able to exit and create a return, obviously. But it starts with a challenge. So if we start with a challenge and we look at the transition towards regenerative agriculture to regenerative and circular food system, what is actually lacking right now? What actually needs to be built? And building sort of almost a database of challenges and opportunities, maybe business cases that work or that is worked on by pioneers but is not going fast enough or they recognize that they're not the right people to bring it forward and using that as a basis you could say sort of all these ingredients together in a program a four-month program with the goal to find well first off obviously a sort of on a human level a connection because you cannot force it obviously it's not like you guys have a great fit on a profile level you should work together it's it's very much a personal thing so no no it's no no yeah it's something else and so a process of I think also building a certain mindset that we can go into that a little bit later, but building a certain mindset, finding the right co-founder, finding a match between founders and a certain idea or a challenge area. So people have obviously certain skills, certain interests that will gravitate them towards certain areas, which is needed also to be dedicated to the level that to get up, to get up in the morning, to get up in the morning. And when it gets really rough to keep going, it has to feel like it's yours. So that's a process. And then if these matches are found going towards the solutions and validating those solutions. So what we're trying to do is really build an ecosystem, both of pioneer organizations and investors and have them involved and listen very good to what is actually needed, what they needed, what they stumble upon, how we can tackle that and involve them also in this process. So as soon as the teams get very much interested in a specific problem area, for example, that they can get into touch with the right people to really get a deeper understanding of what is actually going on and what the problem actually is. And the same for if they start building or trying to build sort of solutions to that problem, being able to validate it quickly, directly with farmers or with a relevant stakeholder,

SPEAKER_00: 17:32

depending on obviously the solution. I think that's a crucial point. The validation is what startup studios differentiate, I think, from many other approaches. And one is the romantic story we have of the lonely entrepreneur in the garage, the building something and then this first person joins and the second person etc etc but it could be years before something happens or it doesn't and years of time and resources and energy and sweat blood and tears are wasted this term of validation can you dive a bit deeper into that what does it mean in a in a startup studio and what happens if let's say validation comes back and it's not validated like it's not getting any traction what's the importance of validation for a studio like yours

SPEAKER_01: 18:13

yeah i think if you look at the reasons why i started feel we already mentioned like problems in the team or not the right team or which is a big thing and often mentioned but the biggest reason is like timing and are you actually solving a problem someone has so to say so lately there's been research as well on the amount of money that's been given and you could say which is a part of the startup studio model sort of stage gates approach so the stage gates idea is that first you really really understand the problem you're solving and you validated that it is It's actually a problem. So not just you think it's a problem or you read in one book that it is a problem. No, you know of the people that have this problem and you're quite certain that it's big enough, not just on a meta level, but also for specific groups. And then if you move towards that, then you can start trying to solve it. And that's another stage gate where you really need to validate is this solution actually solving this problem that we validated first.

SPEAKER_00: 19:11

And just to stop you there for a second, if at the stage gate, let's say the first one, The answer is no. This is a problem that is just not big enough or not real enough. What happens?

SPEAKER_01: 19:21

Well, you abandon it, obviously. So that's the big part, I think, in general of the lean startup principle. So you are willing to let go, keep an open mind continuously and test your own validations, let go. The risk is always to fall in love with your idea. So it's finding a combination with obviously being very passionate and push forward, but also being able to test your own assumptions, so to say, and to compare bear a little bit, I think the studio model goes even beyond that. Because if you look at lean startup, for example, that's on an organizational level. So I don't know, an organization set out to do a certain goal, and then it iterates a little bit towards that. But if you look at a startup studio, you create a broader ecosystem of multiple companies, actually. And especially in this very early stage, it's not just about a process, but it's also about iteration, almost on a portfolio level, you could say in this very early stage. So if, for example, a team, is working on something, but they hit a dead end. In a very early stage, they can already switch to different areas and you can reallocate also resources, maybe even people. So if you look at, for example, Entrepreneur First and their kind of programs, you see teams that are still switching in these early days. So even co-founders in these early days can sort of iterate, so to say, after they hit these roadblocks. So what you try to do is in a very early phase, hit as many roadblocks as you can, so to say, and preventing that you do it later. And I refer back to what I said earlier on, also the effect of giving money being sort of in line with where you are at. So if you give someone who is still validating a problem a lot of money, maybe too much money, they tend to move faster towards, for example, doing sales already and setting up sales channels while the problem is not being validated yet. So if we talk about the roles of the investor, I think, and that's what studios do as well, allocate money proportionally to the stage gates you're in and moving forward accordingly, so to say. So

SPEAKER_00: 21:21

basically unlocking as you move ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 21:24

Yeah, unlocking. And then if you, for example, have a certain amount of money reserved for one organization, but then you hit a end you know it early enough you can reallocate that money as well and maybe the people as well because they might be great people it's not the people they just validated that it doesn't work maybe they can start doing something else

SPEAKER_00: 21:42

which is super valuable i mean it's extremely valuable if you in a year or six months or two months whatever the period is you focused on i don't know a soil sensing technology or a crowd lending platform or a food company and very specifically found out it's not the right timing or maybe not the right product or maybe but not the right service and you can switch to other companies if you want to or other approaches or switch the whole team to another approach within the same structure without losing the people which i think we can't it's interesting how is it sort of it's an emerging mindset process if i'm listening correctly which is very very similar to how farmers that are applying regenerative approaches are thinking about their land like they see on small tests they see what works and what doesn't and most things don't and they put in more resources more land, et cetera, into the things that actually emerge, actually make sense. And not just read something in a book like, oh, this cover crop mix should work here. Let's plant all my land at the same time and do a huge investment and then be very disappointed if it doesn't. The approach sounds very similar.

SPEAKER_01: 22:43

Yeah, I think we can learn a lot from the regenerative approach and from farmers and from different industries. And it's also, as we said, sort of a mindset and that's something if we want to connect to soil, I agree. It's about also the way we build businesses. And that's something I personally grew in the past years as well and changed my perspective on as well. It's not just about, all right, this is a studio model and this is a way like technology companies can be built or companies can build. All right, let's start building regenerative companies and that's it. It's also the approach you take in how the companies are actually built. What does an organization look like if we are trying to build a regenerative economy or really an economy within planetary boundaries? What does that mean for the way you start structure, the businesses, the

SPEAKER_00: 23:32

way you build the teams. What does that mean? Let's go a bit deeper into that because you're basically saying that a startup studio that produces like a factory, region food and egg companies is not good enough. What needs to happen to really make it a regenerative startup studio?

SPEAKER_01: 23:48

Well, so I think one and a half year ago, we joined forces with Metabolic. I was a part of this project. And the first question we asked was based on the first one. So just what to happen tell us what we need to build and what is needed in the food space and we're going to build it but as our conversations progressed we started having these discussions also but what kind of organizations are we actually building if we're trying to find systemic solutions which we are focused on how does an organization stay focused on having a systemic impact and this is not just setting out for a goal in 20 years and keep on sailing towards a goal it's being able to adapt as well so one of the things that we got into is obviously the organizational, the legal structure almost, that's also been a part in your podcast and that inspired us as well, the steward ownership model. So we've been in great contact with Purpose and they partner with us in this as well. So all the organizations that we build, try to build them in a steward ownership structure and also together with the investors that we have involved really has a critical look on how do we organize the organization itself and how do we make sure that not just the The goal it has is towards a regenerative food system, but the organization itself is able to adapt and stay impact-driven for the long term. And I think steward ownership for now is one of the tools we have in that direction. As a legal form, yeah. Yeah, obviously there's still, there's also a lot of pioneering going on there as well. And we have to find it out together, but I think these are the questions you start asking. And now we start with steward ownership, but it can go a lot deeper. So that's on the ownership side. side, that's I think a very important side. And then

SPEAKER_00: 25:32

I think the ownership is fundamental because I remember from the interview and I'll link it below, obviously with Armin, which has been two years ago, maybe more like the ownership question, who owns the steering wheel of your company when push comes to shovel, like when it really, really matters, is it you as the investor? Is it your family? Why should it be you? Can it be sold if somebody puts half a billion on the table and does, do you lose the purpose and the long-term view? And I find their work and other work around it on ownership, extremely interesting, how do you make sure that the organisms and organizations we create or we help create keep their long-term view even if the people change even if the investors change even if a lot of circumstances change how do we create almost internal companies or organizations that can really have the impact we need because this is not a five-year game or a 10-year game we're playing a much longer game here we need the underlying structures to help that because otherwise we're just going to create another generation of companies it's going to be sold by the first generation of entrepreneurs and then most of the impact is going to be lost. I'm very happy, but I know it's very difficult because the legal, let's say the legal frameworks around entrepreneurships aren't really ready for steward ownership yet in many cases. So you're not only bringing a startup studio model to regen ag on food, but also actually pioneering ownership structure. So I think the legal work could be quite challenging.

SPEAKER_01: 26:51

Yeah, I think luckily it's on both sides. I think almost all sides. If you look at startup studio, it's really accelerating. The amount of studios are doubling every but also if you look at steward ownership, it's accelerating very much. And also the impact investors we've been in talks with, when we got into conversations, I sort of introduced them to steward ownership and you have a very interesting conversation. And now they are doing deals with companies way out of my reach, which are steward owned. So they have actually more experience in making actual deals that are steward owned, which is very, very valuable, I think. So it is growing. And the wave is coming and it's coming out of just the conversations, but it's getting into actual deals being made and actual examples. And I think we shouldn't be too dogmatic about it. Like it has to be this way or that way. We have to really invite investors as well to help solve this question. And yeah, I think that's an interesting part of it. what we're trying to do with everyone, I think, in the ecosystem, asking these questions and trying to answer them in a broader sense as well. So how do we organize the organizations, how we set up the legal structure? And I think sort of a second part that you need if you want to have a long-term impact and stay focused on having a systemic impact. Yeah, the ownership model is not

SPEAKER_00: 28:12

good enough.

SPEAKER_01: 28:13

No, the ownership model is not going to cut it. It's facilitating it, I think. But obviously the culture and the mindset or the intent of the founders is very important. That's something I've grown to learn as well. So if we look at sort of systemic solutions, you can look at the system and then look at intervention areas or the leverage points and how to effectively work in the system or try to change or influence the system. But I think something that, and that's why I like regenerative agriculture as well. And also the podcast, because it can turn quite philosophical sometimes, but it's also a perspective and a mindset shift that we need to go through, but also these new founders need to go through. So building a culture and a mindset is probably as important, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 29:05

Meaning that these founders and these teams need to be willing or already are going through certain, let's say, getting to certain levels of consciousness to be able to build regenerative businesses.

SPEAKER_01: 29:18

Yeah, exactly. I think I remember a bit of the discussion you and Ethan had in a recent podcast in on like regenerative approaches or practices and I think I stopped saying it so I say no approaches yeah yeah he corrected me he corrected you and I learned from that as well but I think that's part of the thing right it's about having an approach and I think that's not just about farming it's in general change that we're going through as humanity I would say and if we use that and look at organizations then again that's something we have to take into account in how we build organizations and the people that are building these organizations play a role in that and are very important in that, actually. So you have to be able to

SPEAKER_00: 30:02

change

SPEAKER_01: 30:02

course.

SPEAKER_00: 30:03

Absolutely. I will put another interview in the show notes that Regenerate, the forum, just did with Frederik Lallou, the writer of Reinventing Organizations. And his interest, actually, he's getting very interested in soil as well. It doesn't come from a farming background, but he is fully focused on how do you build these steel organizations, organizations that are almost like organisms, usually without metal. Usually really adapting very, very well. Some very large organizations are managed in that way or are not managed in that way, let's say. But I found it very interesting that he's getting super interested in agriculture, soil and food. So I will link that interview below for anybody that's interested in that. I think it's a great book as well, by the way, Reinventing Organizations, if you're interested in that. And they have a great video series if you're interested in that. But to ask a question, how can people help? People are listening to this. You said you're looking for 30, 40 people. for the first cohort, let's say, I don't know if you call it like that, but this year, what kind of people are you looking for from Europe? You mentioned, how could people get involved if they're interested?

SPEAKER_01: 31:38

Yeah, obviously if people are looking to become a founder in the space, reach out. That's one thing you expect to open sort of the sourcing or open the call, I think in the second quarter of this year. So that's one way get involved. Another thing we're currently working on. And I think, so in general, or trying to build an ecosystem or be a part of a broader ecosystem of both, well, pioneers in the field and investors. So we're already speaking to a lot of organizations, but if you run into people Maybe even business cases that you recognize. And what I've noticed is also for pioneers that are in a certain space, they see a lot of opportunities that they simply cannot act upon, in many cases because of time or it's so far away from their core business. But we're doing the opportunity due diligence, as we're called, and we're very much interested in getting in touch with more organizations that are working on this transition and are open to share challenges and maybe parts of solutions. that they see, but that they are not working on themselves currently that can be accelerated by finding new teams that really match these ideas. So that's the second part, I think. And then the third part that's on the investor side, I think we involved a small group of impact investors now that directly invest into the ventures that we build. But it's also, we'd really invite them on a journey as well on, well, we want them to integrate their due diligence into our process, so to say. So on the legal side, already have all the difficult discussions on steward ownership and develop that model together as well and be part of this journey a little bit and learn how we can actually build better ventures that obviously they are looking for as well,

SPEAKER_00: 33:26

being deal flow for them. Which should help with the fundraising because if you're part of that process as an investor, let's say you should already have a good idea after whatever months or year the cohort runs, which companies you are interested in backing and which not. So hopefully it also... limits the endless time fundraising sometimes takes.

SPEAKER_01: 33:47

Yeah, that's obviously the idea of having them involved. And we have two tiers, so to say. So very early stage. Obviously, this is so early stage. So for many investors, it's like, what do you mean? We get involved and you don't have the company. You're going to build the company. And that's a challenge the startup studio movement has and is tackling right now. And that's why they're becoming very vocal as well in explaining why this is a good way to invest, actually. It's actually better to

SPEAKER_00: 34:14

not have the company yet

SPEAKER_01: 34:15

yeah the recent report by the global startup studio network the guy that wrote it in his introduction he compared it to betting on either the horse or the jockey so are you betting on the id or the team and then the percentages of how they secure success so to say so how do you know if it's going to be successful is that the horse or the jockey but then apparently i think the horse is like 32 percent like if it's a really good horse it's 32 And if it's a really good jockey, it's 24, 25. It's quite similar to ID and team. But there's also a coach who's putting the horse and the jockey together. And apparently good coaches also in the horse riding business, they get up to 53% success rates because they know this horse with this jockey, that is going to work. And that is what the studio model is trying to sell as well. Like invest in the methodology and then the output is going to be better than directly investing. And it's a harder case to make also

SPEAKER_00: 35:17

for us. No, no, I understand because it's such a paradigm shift coming from, but I'm investing in early stage companies or I'm betting on teams. Now, actually, you should be investing in a process to get many of these companies and teams going on something that actually matters. But it's a very much, it's not something we've been taught in investor school or something we've been taught in how companies are actually being built. But if you look at globally, the last 10, 15 years, a A lot of startup studios have been very, very, very successful with much lower risk, much lower failure rates, which I think is for investors always interesting, but also more very successful in helping to build a lot of successful companies. So it's something to look into, although it's so unknown for many. I mean, unknown for many in general, even if you're active in the software world, but imagine in the region ag and food world where it's completely unknown.

SPEAKER_01: 36:09

Yeah, it is. But also maybe in parts it isn't. For example, if you look at an organization like Commonland, I think they were quite well known. And if you look at their approach, and obviously they're focused on the landscape, but they generate new businesses as well while they're changing the landscape. And they obviously have different outputs and different crops or returns coming from the land. And they build companies to also build a market for that. And that's already working. It's about standardizing that. And also... And that's, I think, a big challenge in showing that it works, obviously. So now it's very early stage and a big risk because the returns are coming in these past 10 years, but also finding a business model for this very, very, very early stage and having that work. That's part of the challenge, I think, that we are trying to

SPEAKER_00: 37:01

solve. And to ask a question about that, let's say you had almost unlimited resources. So you had an investment fund of a billion dollars or a billion euros in this case. What would you focus on tomorrow morning? What would you focus on? today if you would be an ambassador with pretty much unlimited resources

SPEAKER_01: 37:19

if i'm very honest i would really try to progress the studio model in on different scale and different niche and if it develops so as i said not just putting the billions at work immediately but trying to set up multiple versions maybe some very local focused or focused on a specific area some on specific intervention areas and developing the model and then having the rest of the money ready to invest in the companies that come out of the process. So, um, yeah, obviously that's, that's what we're doing, but, uh, but not with a billion dollars, not yet. No, not, not yet. So, um, probably if I had a billion dollars, I would find someone to do what I'm doing right now and try to set up a few different versions simultaneously and make sure that they directly learn from each other as well and build a bigger ecosystem already, and then have the money to invest what comes out of it and and also optimize for the throughput that you have and building a broader ecosystem. Also by obviously inspiring people, doing the co-founder matching. Yeah, there are multiple ingredients, so to say, or that we can feed the soil of venture building, so to say, in a broader sense and not just only the venture building. And

SPEAKER_00: 38:35

yeah, I think that's where my money would go. Definitely to a staged approach and getting more, more studios focused on up and running, focused on food and ag and being ready to do follow-up investments. So now, now, unfortunately we took away your fund, but we gave you a magic wand and some magic power. You could change one thing overnight in the agriculture food space. What would that be? The magic wand,

SPEAKER_01: 39:00

that's a difficult one, I think. First off, this is something I look at a heap as well, like the wand being a sort of solution focused. All right, this is going to be the solution. And I know the solution. I don't think that is actually the case. So I would be very hesitant to use a magic wand personally, afraid of creating more

SPEAKER_00: 39:19

problems than solving them. Okay. I mean, the answer could be, I don't want to. Yeah. Could be a policy thing could be a consciousness thing could be, I mean, it could be anything, obviously.

SPEAKER_01: 39:29

Yeah. Personally, I would say the consciousness is probably the most important one. If we've all changed perspective and I'm, I'm personally, I'm not even there yet, but I think if you change the perspective, then we're going to build different companies. We're going to build a different food system, obviously. And yeah, if you need a super practical example, maybe enabling more and more people to also free up their time to go through the process and to start building organizations. So I don't know if we would waive a one and have a sort of a basic income for everyone, universal basic income that everyone can get on their journey and also actually start building organizations a little bit easier than it is now.

SPEAKER_00: 40:12

That's fascinating. It's the first time I think that UBI universal basic, it came up in the magic wand answer, but it's a really, really valid one. I think we need, I'm very frustrated often when I look at the entrepreneurial space within region food and ag because there's it's just very very limited there is a lot happening but if you compare it to other sectors or what needs to be done mostly it's very very limited and you're absolutely right if more people especially people with experience in building things building teams companies funds invest family offices food companies i don't care but building things in the region food and ag space we would be much better off but giving people more the opportunity to do that would there could be ubi could be an interesting do that thank you so much for for the answer and thank you i want to be conscious of your time for your time today and diving deeper into the studio model i don't think it's the last time we're going to be checking in for sure because i'm very very curious when of course when the cohort starts and when the first things come out of it because then it becomes very real and often probably many things you thought about are not working as they should or as you thought and then you're going to be iterating so i'm very much looking forward to to check in when the works are really really starting with live cases processes gates that are going to be open and closed, investments made, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01: 41:29

I look forward to check back in with you as well. And it's only getting started. There's a lot to learn and I love to share what we're learning. And I'm very eager to also be a part of the lessons everyone else within the ecosystem is learning. So happy to share, happy to learn. Thank

SPEAKER_00: 41:45

you for having me, Koen. If you would like to learn more on how to put money to work in regenerative food and agriculture, find our video course on investinginregenerativeagriculture.com If you found the Investing in Regenerative Agriculture and Food podcast valuable, there are a few simple ways you can use to support it. Number one, rate and review the podcast on your podcast app. That's the best way for other listeners to to find the podcast and it only takes a few seconds. Number two, share this podcast on social media or email it to your friends and colleagues. Number three, if this podcast has been of value to you and if you have the means, please join my membership community to help grow this platform and allow me to take it further. You can find all the details on gumroad.com slash investing region egg or in the description below. Thank you so much and see you at the next podcast.